Charm questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charm questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
thunderjp
07-03-07, 11:17 AM Does a character (PC or NPC) always know when a spell hits them that causes them to make a Will save?
What happens when a charm person spell wears off?
Does the 'victim' know s/he was charmed?
Do they remember what happened?
Do they know who charmed them?
Some_call_me_Tim
07-03-07, 01:08 PM Does a character (PC or NPC) always know when a spell hits them that causes them to make a Will save?A character knows he was targeted when he successfully makes a saving throw; he does not know if he fails the saving throw (DMG 34).
What happens when a charm person spell wears off?The magic stops and they may act normally.
Does the 'victim' know s/he was charmed?No. They may well be curious why they treated the person as a friend but they don't know they were charmed.
Do they remember what happened?Yes. Nothing in the spell description to suggest amnesia.
Do they know who charmed them?No. Again they may very well suspect who did it but they don't know for certain.
goawayugh
07-03-07, 01:16 PM ^what he said.
Xykon
07-04-07, 11:55 PM A character knows he was targeted when he successfully makes a saving throw; he does not know if he fails the saving throw (DMG 34).Hmmm.... interesting! Thanks tim, for one, i didn't know this... I assumed that the target in question doesn't know even if he made the save...
MarkB
07-05-07, 02:42 AM It's worth noting that Charm Person is a close-range spell with both verbal and somatic components, so unless the caster somehow manages to remain concealed from the target, it's a fairly simple matter for the target to notice that the caster was spellcasting just before his sudden attitude adjustment.

There are ways around this - you could make the spell Still and Silent, and I seem to recall there's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel that lets you use Bluff and/or Sleight of Hand to disguise your spellcasting as innocuous words and gestures.
Marcus Majarra
07-06-07, 03:18 AM It's worth noting that Charm Person is a close-range spell with both verbal and somatic components, so unless the caster somehow manages to remain concealed from the target, it's a fairly simple matter for the target to notice that the caster was spellcasting just before his sudden attitude adjustment.
Arguably, a creature friendly to you (charmed creatures are always friendly to the caster) wouldn't think ill of you and most likely rationalize your actions as being something favorable.
MarkB
07-07-07, 10:35 AM Arguably, a creature friendly to you (charmed creatures are always friendly to the caster) wouldn't think ill of you and most likely rationalize your actions as being something favorable.

Or alternatively, you know very well that your new friend just cast a charm spell on you, but you forgive him for it anyway, because after all, he is your best friend.
DrMorganes
07-07-07, 11:13 AM Someone without ranks in Spellcraft would be unlikely to think much of witnessing a spell being cast. Heck, he may not even be looking in that direction. After all, what does Tim the Commoner know from magic? If he failed the save, all he would know is he LIKES the guy in the robes and carrying a stick. If he made his save, he'd know something had been cast on him and may assume it was the guy wiggling his fingers.

Keep in mind, too, that Charmed individuals still have complete memory of everything that happened over the course of the spell's duration. Once the spell expires, they'll know the guy with the stick was really nice, that they wanted to help him, and may wonder WHY they did what they did. From there the target may well be able to deduce they were under some form of magical coercion.

Ferinstance:

Captain of the Watch: Why did you let those ruffians through the gate? They're wanted for questioning!

Tim the Commoner: I dunno, yer lairdship. The one wi' th' staff just struck me as a good sort. Didn't see no harm in't.

Captain: The one with the staff? You mean the wizard?!

Tim: Wizard? He waggaled 'is finger at me. 'E must've hexed me, yer lairdship!
Marcus Majarra
07-07-07, 11:39 AM Or alternatively, you know very well that your new friend just cast a charm spell on you, but you forgive him for it anyway, because after all, he is your best friend.
This is only true for characters with sufficient Spellcraft to recognize the spell cast.
Mystic Lemur
07-07-07, 12:12 PM Once it wears off, if they do somehow know they were charmed, all the warm fuzzies have gone away and they will likely be angry. If they don't know, then I think the "thought he was a good sort" analogy would be very apt.
MarkB
07-07-07, 03:47 PM This is only true for characters with sufficient Spellcraft to recognize the spell cast.

I meant 'know' as in 'deduce from available evidence'. A person who sees someone he dislikes casting a spell and then suddenly finds himself liking the caster a lot can - assuming he knows that Charm spells exist - easily work out what's happened to him. It's just that, for the moment, he doesn't actually mind that it's been done.
Marcus Majarra
07-07-07, 04:44 PM I would say that requires some introspection as to why he changed behavior. Not to mention that if he fails his saving throw, he is not immediately aware of being the target of the spell. This said, I would only allow these "easy conclusions" for the formerly charmed if they have a valid reason to ask themselves why they had a change in behavior. Otherwise, I'd have the change go on seamlessly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thunderjp 07-03-07, 11:17 AM	Does a character (PC or NPC) always know when a spell hits them that causes them to make a Will save? What happens when a charm person spell wears off? Does the 'victim' know s/he was charmed? Do they remember what happened? Do they know who charmed them?
Some_call_me_Tim 07-03-07, 01:08 PM	Does a character (PC or NPC) always know when a spell hits them that causes them to make a Will save?A character knows he was targeted when he successfully makes a saving throw; he does not know if he fails the saving throw (DMG 34). What happens when a charm person spell wears off?The magic stops and they may act normally. Does the 'victim' know s/he was charmed?No. They may well be curious why they treated the person as a friend but they don't know they were charmed. Do they remember what happened?Yes. Nothing in the spell description to suggest amnesia. Do they know who charmed them?No. Again they may very well suspect who did it but they don't know for certain.
goawayugh 07-03-07, 01:16 PM	^what he said.
Xykon 07-04-07, 11:55 PM	A character knows he was targeted when he successfully makes a saving throw; he does not know if he fails the saving throw (DMG 34).Hmmm.... interesting! Thanks tim, for one, i didn't know this... I assumed that the target in question doesn't know even if he made the save...
MarkB 07-05-07, 02:42 AM	It's worth noting that Charm Person is a close-range spell with both verbal and somatic components, so unless the caster somehow manages to remain concealed from the target, it's a fairly simple matter for the target to notice that the caster was spellcasting just before his sudden attitude adjustment. There are ways around this - you could make the spell Still and Silent, and I seem to recall there's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel that lets you use Bluff and/or Sleight of Hand to disguise your spellcasting as innocuous words and gestures.
Marcus Majarra 07-06-07, 03:18 AM	It's worth noting that Charm Person is a close-range spell with both verbal and somatic components, so unless the caster somehow manages to remain concealed from the target, it's a fairly simple matter for the target to notice that the caster was spellcasting just before his sudden attitude adjustment. Arguably, a creature friendly to you (charmed creatures are always friendly to the caster) wouldn't think ill of you and most likely rationalize your actions as being something favorable.
MarkB 07-07-07, 10:35 AM	Arguably, a creature friendly to you (charmed creatures are always friendly to the caster) wouldn't think ill of you and most likely rationalize your actions as being something favorable. Or alternatively, you know very well that your new friend just cast a charm spell on you, but you forgive him for it anyway, because after all, he is your best friend.
DrMorganes 07-07-07, 11:13 AM	Someone without ranks in Spellcraft would be unlikely to think much of witnessing a spell being cast. Heck, he may not even be looking in that direction. After all, what does Tim the Commoner know from magic? If he failed the save, all he would know is he LIKES the guy in the robes and carrying a stick. If he made his save, he'd know something had been cast on him and may assume it was the guy wiggling his fingers. Keep in mind, too, that Charmed individuals still have complete memory of everything that happened over the course of the spell's duration. Once the spell expires, they'll know the guy with the stick was really nice, that they wanted to help him, and may wonder WHY they did what they did. From there the target may well be able to deduce they were under some form of magical coercion. Ferinstance: Captain of the Watch: Why did you let those ruffians through the gate? They're wanted for questioning! Tim the Commoner: I dunno, yer lairdship. The one wi' th' staff just struck me as a good sort. Didn't see no harm in't. Captain: The one with the staff? You mean the wizard?! Tim: Wizard? He waggaled 'is finger at me. 'E must've hexed me, yer lairdship!
Marcus Majarra 07-07-07, 11:39 AM	Or alternatively, you know very well that your new friend just cast a charm spell on you, but you forgive him for it anyway, because after all, he is your best friend. This is only true for characters with sufficient Spellcraft to recognize the spell cast.
Mystic Lemur 07-07-07, 12:12 PM	Once it wears off, if they do somehow know they were charmed, all the warm fuzzies have gone away and they will likely be angry. If they don't know, then I think the "thought he was a good sort" analogy would be very apt.
MarkB 07-07-07, 03:47 PM	This is only true for characters with sufficient Spellcraft to recognize the spell cast. I meant 'know' as in 'deduce from available evidence'. A person who sees someone he dislikes casting a spell and then suddenly finds himself liking the caster a lot can - assuming he knows that Charm spells exist - easily work out what's happened to him. It's just that, for the moment, he doesn't actually mind that it's been done.
Marcus Majarra 07-07-07, 04:44 PM	I would say that requires some introspection as to why he changed behavior. Not to mention that if he fails his saving throw, he is not immediately aware of being the target of the spell. This said, I would only allow these "easy conclusions" for the formerly charmed if they have a valid reason to ask themselves why they had a change in behavior. Otherwise, I'd have the change go on seamlessly.