Clarification on odd saves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clarification on odd saves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Templar3378
06-13-07, 01:00 PM I have noticed that some monsters have skills and abilities that say something along the lines of this: "The save DC is Charisma-based."

I have seen Fortitude as well as some others. What exactly does that mean?
Kragg Bonemeal
06-13-07, 01:16 PM It means that if you advance the monster (through HD, size, class levels, give it magic items, etc) that make its Cha, Con, etc bonus goes up, so does the DC of its effect. A more hearty snake (+Con) has stronger poison (+DC).
Kouk
06-13-07, 01:41 PM Conversely, if your players debuff their relevant ability score, the special ability that is CHA based for example will become easier to resist if the CHA of the creature is lowered.
Templar3378
06-13-07, 01:41 PM Okay, so if my Allip somehow got a charisma boost from a spell, (say eagles splendor) and the DC 16 save for its babble ability would go up respectively to the bonus that eagles splendor gave it (+2 modifier) for a total of a DC 18 save?
Kragg Bonemeal
06-13-07, 01:53 PM Okay, so if my Allip somehow got a charisma boost from a spell, (say eagles splendor) and the DC 16 save for its babble ability would go up respectively to the bonus that eagles splendor gave it (+2 modifier) for a total of a DC 18 save?

Correct. And as Kouk ably pointed out, if you somehow affect it with a Cha draining Bestow Curse or something, its ability DC will go down.
Templar3378
06-13-07, 04:05 PM Excellent! Thank both!
Father Dale
06-14-07, 02:28 AM Regarding debuffing and lowered DCs.

This also works if there is an effect that lowers the creatures HD, such as energy drain.

Normally the DC for most special attacks is 10 + 1/2 HD + relevant ability mod (usually Con or Cha). If you hit the creature for 2 negative levels, it will drop the DC by 1.
goawayugh
06-14-07, 11:51 AM I have noticed that some monsters have skills and abilities that say something along the lines of this: "The save DC is Charisma-based."

I have seen Fortitude as well as some others. What exactly does that mean?

It would be the same thing as say that a Wizards spell DC's are Int-based. It is just what ability mod gets added to the DC.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Templar3378 06-13-07, 01:00 PM	I have noticed that some monsters have skills and abilities that say something along the lines of this: "The save DC is Charisma-based." I have seen Fortitude as well as some others. What exactly does that mean?
Kragg Bonemeal 06-13-07, 01:16 PM	It means that if you advance the monster (through HD, size, class levels, give it magic items, etc) that make its Cha, Con, etc bonus goes up, so does the DC of its effect. A more hearty snake (+Con) has stronger poison (+DC).
Kouk 06-13-07, 01:41 PM	Conversely, if your players debuff their relevant ability score, the special ability that is CHA based for example will become easier to resist if the CHA of the creature is lowered.
Templar3378 06-13-07, 01:41 PM	Okay, so if my Allip somehow got a charisma boost from a spell, (say eagles splendor) and the DC 16 save for its babble ability would go up respectively to the bonus that eagles splendor gave it (+2 modifier) for a total of a DC 18 save?
Kragg Bonemeal 06-13-07, 01:53 PM	Okay, so if my Allip somehow got a charisma boost from a spell, (say eagles splendor) and the DC 16 save for its babble ability would go up respectively to the bonus that eagles splendor gave it (+2 modifier) for a total of a DC 18 save? Correct. And as Kouk ably pointed out, if you somehow affect it with a Cha draining Bestow Curse or something, its ability DC will go down.
Templar3378 06-13-07, 04:05 PM	Excellent! Thank both!
Father Dale 06-14-07, 02:28 AM	Regarding debuffing and lowered DCs. This also works if there is an effect that lowers the creatures HD, such as energy drain. Normally the DC for most special attacks is 10 + 1/2 HD + relevant ability mod (usually Con or Cha). If you hit the creature for 2 negative levels, it will drop the DC by 1.
goawayugh 06-14-07, 11:51 AM	I have noticed that some monsters have skills and abilities that say something along the lines of this: "The save DC is Charisma-based." I have seen Fortitude as well as some others. What exactly does that mean? It would be the same thing as say that a Wizards spell DC's are Int-based. It is just what ability mod gets added to the DC.