Class levels + CR? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class levels + CR? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
flamepheonix182
04-22-08, 01:12 PM I was just wondering how to calculate the CR of something with only character levels? I read in the DM's guide about how each character level adds either +1 CR or +1/2 depending on how much the class helps the current race. but what about only character levels? For Instance does a 3rd level fighter have CR 3? or does it work differently?
Zuggster
04-22-08, 01:27 PM Part of it depends on whether you use a PC class, like Fighter, or an NPC class like Warrior. 1 Level of either is viewed as 1 or 1/2 respectively.

As for how well a class helps a race, an Ogre wouldn't make as much out of a level of Wizard as a Mind Flayer, so you could argue a level or 2 wouldn't be quite a full +1 CR each. Enough levels of a particular class would (and might go on the standard with NPC Classes above).

The DMG does have a couple of paragraphs that go into more detail about it.
flamepheonix182
04-22-08, 02:08 PM Thanks for the help. I found the paragraph's about NPC's with character levels. For some reason I skipped over it when I was reading earlier :mymy:
Merestil Haye
04-22-08, 04:14 PM The rules on associated and nonassociated levels don't apply to creatures with only one racial HD (All the PHB races, for a start).

If the creature has only one racial HD, it is replaced by the first class level the creature takes. For such creatures, the CR is equal to the total class levels. However, if the creature has one or more levels in an NPC class, you reduce the CR by 1 (unless the racial description specifies otherwise).
runestar
04-22-08, 07:46 PM On paper at least.

Note that the cr system is notoriously inaccurate when it comes to determining npc crs, and is likely overinflated at higher lvs. Especially at higher lvs, when they become obscenely overinflated.
Wih
04-23-08, 01:55 AM On paper at least.

Note that the cr system is notoriously inaccurate when it comes to determining npc crs, and is likely overinflated at higher lvs. Especially at higher lvs, when they become obscenely overinflated.

Kinda. Moster come pre-packaged out of the box, while NPCs you build yourself. You give the NPC Fighter nothing but social skill boosting feats, scrolls that he cant use and no weapons, he's going to be a push-over. Optimize him to an extent (such as this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=163005) updated for 4 years of material, or something better) and he'll be a credible threat. Monsters just have all the guesswork done - NPCs mean you have to balance them yourself.
Some_call_me_Tim
04-23-08, 07:56 PM Part of it depends on whether you use a PC class, like Fighter, or an NPC class like Warrior. 1 Level of either is viewed as 1 or 1/2 respectively.Be careful, NPC levels are not counted as 1/2 levels but rather CR = NPC levels -1, while a War1 is indeed CR 1/2 but a War5 is CR 4.
Xeviat-DM
04-24-08, 05:53 AM I recently statted out and geared up two 13th level NPCs (one a swordsage, one a warrior) for use against my 17th level players (intended to have two encounters with multiple baddies). My players have gear appropriate for their level, and so do the NPCs, but the NPCs can't hit the PCs' ACs, nor can the PCs miss the NPCs' ACs. In order to make the opponents a fair challenge, I'm going to have to increase their level (and by the EL guidelines I'd have to reduce the number or the players will be in for a rougher fight) or artificially inflate their to hits and ACs.

But everyone is right: CR equals level for PC classes, level -1 for NPC classes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
flamepheonix182 04-22-08, 01:12 PM	I was just wondering how to calculate the CR of something with only character levels? I read in the DM's guide about how each character level adds either +1 CR or +1/2 depending on how much the class helps the current race. but what about only character levels? For Instance does a 3rd level fighter have CR 3? or does it work differently?
Zuggster 04-22-08, 01:27 PM	Part of it depends on whether you use a PC class, like Fighter, or an NPC class like Warrior. 1 Level of either is viewed as 1 or 1/2 respectively. As for how well a class helps a race, an Ogre wouldn't make as much out of a level of Wizard as a Mind Flayer, so you could argue a level or 2 wouldn't be quite a full +1 CR each. Enough levels of a particular class would (and might go on the standard with NPC Classes above). The DMG does have a couple of paragraphs that go into more detail about it.
flamepheonix182 04-22-08, 02:08 PM	Thanks for the help. I found the paragraph's about NPC's with character levels. For some reason I skipped over it when I was reading earlier :mymy:
Merestil Haye 04-22-08, 04:14 PM	The rules on associated and nonassociated levels don't apply to creatures with only one racial HD (All the PHB races, for a start). If the creature has only one racial HD, it is replaced by the first class level the creature takes. For such creatures, the CR is equal to the total class levels. However, if the creature has one or more levels in an NPC class, you reduce the CR by 1 (unless the racial description specifies otherwise).
runestar 04-22-08, 07:46 PM	On paper at least. Note that the cr system is notoriously inaccurate when it comes to determining npc crs, and is likely overinflated at higher lvs. Especially at higher lvs, when they become obscenely overinflated.
Wih 04-23-08, 01:55 AM	On paper at least. Note that the cr system is notoriously inaccurate when it comes to determining npc crs, and is likely overinflated at higher lvs. Especially at higher lvs, when they become obscenely overinflated. Kinda. Moster come pre-packaged out of the box, while NPCs you build yourself. You give the NPC Fighter nothing but social skill boosting feats, scrolls that he cant use and no weapons, he's going to be a push-over. Optimize him to an extent (such as this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=163005) updated for 4 years of material, or something better) and he'll be a credible threat. Monsters just have all the guesswork done - NPCs mean you have to balance them yourself.
Some_call_me_Tim 04-23-08, 07:56 PM	Part of it depends on whether you use a PC class, like Fighter, or an NPC class like Warrior. 1 Level of either is viewed as 1 or 1/2 respectively.Be careful, NPC levels are not counted as 1/2 levels but rather CR = NPC levels -1, while a War1 is indeed CR 1/2 but a War5 is CR 4.
Xeviat-DM 04-24-08, 05:53 AM	I recently statted out and geared up two 13th level NPCs (one a swordsage, one a warrior) for use against my 17th level players (intended to have two encounters with multiple baddies). My players have gear appropriate for their level, and so do the NPCs, but the NPCs can't hit the PCs' ACs, nor can the PCs miss the NPCs' ACs. In order to make the opponents a fair challenge, I'm going to have to increase their level (and by the EL guidelines I'd have to reduce the number or the players will be in for a rougher fight) or artificially inflate their to hits and ACs. But everyone is right: CR equals level for PC classes, level -1 for NPC classes.