Cohorts and XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cohorts and XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
new_fashion_guy
03-14-08, 11:44 AM I have a party with five PCs. One of the PCs is a Druid with an Animal Companion, which advanced based on the Druid's level, no XP involved. Another party member has just bought some ranks in leadership, and wants a cohort.

My question is this. I've effectively got 7 party members, doing much more damage than just the 5 alone would do. Yet the Druid's animal companion doesn't gain or affect party XP. According to the SRD:

Cohorts earn XP as follows:
The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP.
Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).
Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total.
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.

To me, this says that having the cohort there doesn't affect how the party gains XP, and the cohort essentially gets "free" XP based on how much the PC he's under gets. Is this right? In other words, if I have an EL 8 encounter, with effectively 7 combatants, do I determine XP as if there were only the 5 PCs, and then divide that XP up among only those five, yet the cohort continues to gain XP and make the encounters easier?
wonlee76
03-14-08, 12:07 PM There is a reason why Leadership feat is in the DMG. Its more powerful then any other feat in the PHB and is discretionary.

Yes, the cohort gets "free" xp.
Yes, the cohort does make encounters easier.
No, you do not count the cohort in any fashion towards xp calculations unless you want to houserule a modifier to the xp as the DM.

Cohorts tend to be more fragile then PCs since they are at least 2 levels behind the group. Since they're 2 levels behind the group, their effectiveness in combat is also a bit smaller. Further, as NPCs, they start with NPC starting gear wealth which is substantially less then what a PC should have weakening them even further (barring a PC using some of his wealth on his cohort). Cohorts also as NPCs uses the NPC stats for their attributes barring DM houserule. This may result in a cohort being weaker than the PCs (depending on what method of stat generation the PCs used).

All in all, if you followed the NPC rules in creation of the cohort, their impact on encounters is not as big as if you treat them like a PC and give them all the benefit of the doubt of a PC.
new_fashion_guy
03-14-08, 12:50 PM All in all, if you followed the NPC rules in creation of the cohort, their impact on encounters is not as big as if you treat them like a PC and give them all the benefit of the doubt of a PC.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm tempted to houserule this. Didn't the old system call for a 1/2 share, in which case for a 12000 XP aware to 5 PCs + 1 Cohort would be 12000/6 = 2000 Per, but 2000/2 = only 1000 for the Cohort, with the remaining 1000 being divided by 5, for 200, meaning each PC got 2200 XP from the encounter, and the Cohort got 1000? This seems much more fair.
mvincent
03-14-08, 01:47 PM To me, this says that having the cohort there doesn't affect how the party gains XP, and the cohort essentially gets "free" XP based on how much the PC he's under gets. Is this right? In other words, if I have an EL 8 encounter, with effectively 7 combatants, do I determine XP as if there were only the 5 PCs, and then divide that XP up among only those five, yet the cohort continues to gain XP and make the encounters easier?Yes to all.

I'm tempted to houserule this.The cohort is already taking spotlight time away from the other players. If it also took XP away from them, they might have cause to be annoyed. Better to just say no to leadership.
Half_Dragon_Infernal
03-16-08, 08:15 PM Actually, Leadership is in the PH. It's just that it doesn't provide any info other than the requirements and that the relevant information is in the DMG.
DerelictDroid
03-17-08, 10:21 AM Although not precisely an answer to your question, my view on Leadership. If the player wants a 'flavor' cohort, or a utility cohort that fills some void in the party then I see no reason to restrict or penalize the feat.
StevenO
03-17-08, 02:55 PM Other NPCs "adventuring" with the players should get XP that takes away from the PCs. This mean that the helpful wizard who comes with gets a full share of XP and really should get that much treasure as well.

When PCs expend resources to gain the help then that help shouldn't cost them any XP. You pay gold for your warhorse and while it is a living thing that can make encounters easier it is really part of the PCs equipment. Hiring porters, guards or other professional help (even if it isn't that good) would work the same way; they may gain personal experience but that doesn't take anything away from the PCs. A character taking Leadership is spending a FEAT (arguable more valuable than gold) to gain those henchmen services and shouldn't be docked XP because of it.
mvincent
03-17-08, 03:20 PM Other NPCs "adventuring" with the players should get XP that takes away from the PCs.As a player, I would not permit NPC's to travel with the party if that were the case. Even without the XP penalty, they tend to be cumbersome (burning up game time and spotlight time) and not very efficient (and so I avoid them regardless, unless the DM really wants them present).

As a DM, I tend to treat NPC's as mentioned in Heroes of Battle: they're just part of the background and do not effect XP (either positively or negatively). They might (ad-hoc) remove some mooks from combat, but those mooks won't count towards PC XP.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
new_fashion_guy 03-14-08, 11:44 AM	I have a party with five PCs. One of the PCs is a Druid with an Animal Companion, which advanced based on the Druid's level, no XP involved. Another party member has just bought some ranks in leadership, and wants a cohort. My question is this. I've effectively got 7 party members, doing much more damage than just the 5 alone would do. Yet the Druid's animal companion doesn't gain or affect party XP. According to the SRD: Cohorts earn XP as follows: The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP. Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort). Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total. If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level. To me, this says that having the cohort there doesn't affect how the party gains XP, and the cohort essentially gets "free" XP based on how much the PC he's under gets. Is this right? In other words, if I have an EL 8 encounter, with effectively 7 combatants, do I determine XP as if there were only the 5 PCs, and then divide that XP up among only those five, yet the cohort continues to gain XP and make the encounters easier?
wonlee76 03-14-08, 12:07 PM	There is a reason why Leadership feat is in the DMG. Its more powerful then any other feat in the PHB and is discretionary. Yes, the cohort gets "free" xp. Yes, the cohort does make encounters easier. No, you do not count the cohort in any fashion towards xp calculations unless you want to houserule a modifier to the xp as the DM. Cohorts tend to be more fragile then PCs since they are at least 2 levels behind the group. Since they're 2 levels behind the group, their effectiveness in combat is also a bit smaller. Further, as NPCs, they start with NPC starting gear wealth which is substantially less then what a PC should have weakening them even further (barring a PC using some of his wealth on his cohort). Cohorts also as NPCs uses the NPC stats for their attributes barring DM houserule. This may result in a cohort being weaker than the PCs (depending on what method of stat generation the PCs used). All in all, if you followed the NPC rules in creation of the cohort, their impact on encounters is not as big as if you treat them like a PC and give them all the benefit of the doubt of a PC.
new_fashion_guy 03-14-08, 12:50 PM	All in all, if you followed the NPC rules in creation of the cohort, their impact on encounters is not as big as if you treat them like a PC and give them all the benefit of the doubt of a PC. Thanks for the advice. I'm tempted to houserule this. Didn't the old system call for a 1/2 share, in which case for a 12000 XP aware to 5 PCs + 1 Cohort would be 12000/6 = 2000 Per, but 2000/2 = only 1000 for the Cohort, with the remaining 1000 being divided by 5, for 200, meaning each PC got 2200 XP from the encounter, and the Cohort got 1000? This seems much more fair.
mvincent 03-14-08, 01:47 PM	To me, this says that having the cohort there doesn't affect how the party gains XP, and the cohort essentially gets "free" XP based on how much the PC he's under gets. Is this right? In other words, if I have an EL 8 encounter, with effectively 7 combatants, do I determine XP as if there were only the 5 PCs, and then divide that XP up among only those five, yet the cohort continues to gain XP and make the encounters easier?Yes to all. I'm tempted to houserule this.The cohort is already taking spotlight time away from the other players. If it also took XP away from them, they might have cause to be annoyed. Better to just say no to leadership.
Half_Dragon_Infernal 03-16-08, 08:15 PM	Actually, Leadership is in the PH. It's just that it doesn't provide any info other than the requirements and that the relevant information is in the DMG.
DerelictDroid 03-17-08, 10:21 AM	Although not precisely an answer to your question, my view on Leadership. If the player wants a 'flavor' cohort, or a utility cohort that fills some void in the party then I see no reason to restrict or penalize the feat.
StevenO 03-17-08, 02:55 PM	Other NPCs "adventuring" with the players should get XP that takes away from the PCs. This mean that the helpful wizard who comes with gets a full share of XP and really should get that much treasure as well. When PCs expend resources to gain the help then that help shouldn't cost them any XP. You pay gold for your warhorse and while it is a living thing that can make encounters easier it is really part of the PCs equipment. Hiring porters, guards or other professional help (even if it isn't that good) would work the same way; they may gain personal experience but that doesn't take anything away from the PCs. A character taking Leadership is spending a FEAT (arguable more valuable than gold) to gain those henchmen services and shouldn't be docked XP because of it.
mvincent 03-17-08, 03:20 PM	Other NPCs "adventuring" with the players should get XP that takes away from the PCs.As a player, I would not permit NPC's to travel with the party if that were the case. Even without the XP penalty, they tend to be cumbersome (burning up game time and spotlight time) and not very efficient (and so I avoid them regardless, unless the DM really wants them present). As a DM, I tend to treat NPC's as mentioned in Heroes of Battle: they're just part of the background and do not effect XP (either positively or negatively). They might (ad-hoc) remove some mooks from combat, but those mooks won't count towards PC XP.