Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jopustopin 11-12-07, 07:33 PM	If a human is fighting in pitch darkness against a say a drow elf. The drow elf has no vision problems, but the human does. I know that the human has to attack a 'square' but how do I tell him about what square the drow is attacking from? Like let's say the drow hits him and uses the 5 foot movement to move to a different square. How could the human ever attack the right square in that instance?
Legdiwena 11-12-07, 08:32 PM	Listen checks, and think there a few other things listed in area about fighting invisible creatures
weasel0 11-13-07, 12:07 AM	Well, that's pretty much the whole idea behind fighting a blind person. He doesn't know where you are. In this example: A: the defender knows what square the attack came from. B: the defender has a 50/50 chance of guessing which way the drow moved. He shouldn't know, how far the drow moves after the attack however. A listen check purposfully made as such, has to beat the drow's move silent DC by 20(even if the drow isn't "making" one, he technically is at a -10 cause he isn't trying to be quiet) to figure out what square he's in, otherwise, your stuck guessing, and still having a 50% miss chance, even if you're right.
Kouk 11-13-07, 03:32 AM	The Drow is effectively invisible to the human, so the Drow gets a +2 to attack the human (or if you would prefer, the human suffers a -2 penalty to AC) and can ignore the human's Dex bonus to AC (allowing Sneak Attacks if any) unless the Human has Uncanny Dodge or Blind Fight, or some other unusual feat or ability. There might be some rules for a high Listen check to pinpoint a square in a similar fashion to how Spot can pinpoint an invisible creature, but I am not able to locate such a rule. I would say a decent check would at least let someone know the direction of movement (unless there are unusual circumstances). I think the human's best options in this situation are to Ready an Action to strike at the direction he is being attacked from, which should probably get him the right square (still a 50% miss chance though) for that one attack. He might also just try to boost his AC with Combat Expertise/Fighting Defensively or just Total Defense if that would be better, and wait for help. Remember kids: always carry a quick light source if you don't have Darkvision (or even if you do).
Tedronai 11-13-07, 03:57 PM	Combat Expertise, Fighting Defensively, and the Total Defense action grant dodge bonuses, which are lost whenever you lose your Dex bonus to AC. So unless you have Blind-Fight/Uncanny Dodge/etc., you won't be getting the benefits from those tactics.
Nom 11-13-07, 07:01 PM	If a human is fighting in pitch darkness against a say a drow elf. The drow elf has no vision problems, but the human does. I know that the human has to attack a 'square' but how do I tell him about what square the drow is attacking from? Like let's say the drow hits him and uses the 5 foot movement to move to a different square. How could the human ever attack the right square in that instance?Assuming the drow doesn't have reach, making a melee attack will "pinpoint" your square. If the drow then moves, it's Listen vs Move Silently to find direction, or DC +20 to pinpoint them. All this is in the invisibility rules on DMG pg 295.
Jopustopin 11-14-07, 10:13 AM	Assuming the drow doesn't have reach, making a melee attack will "pinpoint" your square. If the drow then moves, it's Listen vs Move Silently to find direction, or DC +20 to pinpoint them. All this is in the invisibility rules on DMG pg 295. thanks I was trying to find this information by looking under the wrong thing. Thanks for everyone's help this is going to come up in our next fight basically.