Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 10-26-07, 09:51 PM	(Reposted (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943599) from the Skills and Feats board) How does this work? Let's say a paladin 6 has a unicorn mount, and takes the leadership feat to give it cleric levels. How do you do this? Do you say that the cost of the unicorn is "paid for" by the special mount class feature, and that leadership adds class levels, along with an LA +2, suggested by the DMG on page 200, so a paladin 6 has a unicorn with four magical beast hit dice, two bonus animal hit dice, and 4 "effective levels" from the leadership feat, two of which go to an additional LA of +2, and two of which go to two cleric levels? Or do you say that the unicorn has a cohort ECL of 8 by default, and if combined with the paladin's mount feature, has a total cohort ECL of 10, so a paladin doesn't add any class levels until the leadership feat would allow him a level 11 cohort, at which point the mount-cohort can have a cleric level of the cohort level -10? Or do you say that the unicorn's bonus hit dice are incorporated into ECL, so it basically never gets cleric levels pre-epic? (the mount-cohort without class levels has an ECL of 12 (4 magic beast HD, 2 bonus animal HD, LA +4 by default, LA +2 from being a cohort-mount) from paladin levels 6-8, an ECL of 14 from paladin levels 9-11, an ECL of 16 from paladin levels 12-15, and an ECL of 18 from paladin levels 16-20.
Marcus Majarra 10-27-07, 12:42 AM	Basically, when combining the special mount feature with a cohort gained through Leadership, you're getting a long-term special mount that doesn't merely remain with you when you summon it. As a cohort, it remains at your side continuously. This is why it sort of offsets your combining the features to a certain degree. For example, a 6th-level paladin can choose to have a unicorn special mount. However, since unicorn cohorts are considered to have an ECL of 8, and giving it special mount features warrants a +2 LA, then the unicorn cohort special mount is considered a 10th-level cohort, regardless of the paladin level. Thus, combining both would require a 12th-level paladin with a Leadership score of at least 14. Bonus HD are considered part of the benefits of combining features and should not be accounted for in the mount's ECL (for cohort's purposes, these bonus HD are part of the +2 LA).
JulesCARV 10-27-07, 03:01 PM	Okay. Thanks. Can you still send it to the celestial realms if you want to, though?
Marcus Majarra 10-28-07, 02:05 AM	Okay. Thanks. Can you still send it to the celestial realms if you want to, though? I don't see the point in this much. The idea of a cohort is that it's always there to accompany you. If you want it to spend time in the celestial realms, you should simply keep your special mount as original.
JulesCARV 10-28-07, 12:45 PM	There are times when having a mount isn't desirable. If you're sleeping at an inn, having your mount stay in the stable will just cost more be more inconvenient compared sending the mount off to sleep in Celestia. Similarly, if you're going into a cramped dungeon, a mount is likely to be unable to come with you, so dismissing the mount is easier than leaving it vulnerable waiting outside.
Outsider Subtype 10-29-07, 04:17 PM	Suppose that the paladin obtained the unicorn special mount at 5th level through the Elf Racial Substitution level in Races of the Wild. Would that alter this scenario in any way, or would the paladin still need to wait until 12th level to derive any benefit from having the unicorn as a cohort?
Marcus Majarra 10-31-07, 02:56 AM	Yes, he would. However, keep in mind that the elf paladin's cohort mount will receive special mount benefits for that of a normal 12th-level paladin's mount. Since normal paladins can acquire a unicorn mount at 6th level anyway, all the substitution level will net you is a 1-level edge over your typical paladin.