Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Another_Poet 01-14-08, 10:04 AM	A sorcerer PC in my group recently cast Command Undead on a skeleton that was already under the control of another (enemy) caster, who was also using Command Undead. The enemy caster was using a magic item to extend his range and allow non-verbal (telepathic) commands, but for the purposes of my rules question let's assume that both casters are in range and can give commands, and that the subject is either non-intelligent or fails its save. So does the PC get control, or is there a power struggle between the two casters? Spur-of-the-moment I ruled that the two Command Undead overlapped, so if the PC gave orders that conflicted with the enemy caster's orders then the PC "must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do" using the enemy caster's charisma for the opposed roll. Basically, they were playing tug-of-war with a skele. Does this seem reasonable? ap
Finarin Panjoro 01-14-08, 10:14 AM	That is a perfectly reasonable method of resolving the issue. In fact I think that was the recommended method in the FAQ or rules of the game or some such. The other method is to use the most recently applied means of control is dominant. That is whoever cast Command Undead most recently now had control. So instead of dueling charisma checks it comes down to who can take control of it the most often (be it a cleric with rebuke/command attempts or arcanists with command undead).
mvincent 01-14-08, 01:19 PM	I ruled that the two Command Undead overlapped, so if the PC gave orders that conflicted with the enemy caster's orders then the PC "must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do" using the enemy caster's charisma for the opposed roll. Basically, they were playing tug-of-war with a skele. Does this seem reasonable?Yes. The situation is perfect for the Multiple Mental Control Effects rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects): "Multiple Mental Control Effects Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as a spell that removes the subjects ability to act. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys."
Another_Poet 01-14-08, 10:32 PM	Thanks to both of the above posters for confirming this. Now I have a new mission as a DM: design and implement a situation where one or more PCs, no less than two other NPC spellcasters, and an intelligent undead all attempt to wrest control of said undead from one another... ...with no two persons on the same team. ap