Couple questions...(AoO and...) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Couple questions...(AoO and...) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Meat_Shield
10-17-07, 04:23 PM Hey everyone,

I have a few questions, mostly centered around AoO.

-If there is an enemy (or ally?) between me and my enemy but he does something to provoke an attack of opportunity and is within my reach (Lets say I have a 10 foot reach) can I stlil make that AoO with an enemty (or ally) between me and my target? I thought there was a feat that let you do this, can't find it..if I can then that would indicate no (Is this becasue you can't make AoO against a target with cover?)

-What melee attack actions can you take with an AoO? Can I disarm and/or trip when making an AoO? I'm assuming anything you normally could do /w a melee attack action.

-Spontanesouly casting dosen't let you sac spells for Heal (or Harm if you channel negative energy) right?

-Can I make attacks against an adjacent enemy if I'm wielding a spike chain? (I know you cna't with a halberd w/o that feat..also, dosen't say anywhere I can't so I assume I can?)

-Thicket of Blades (Martial Stance). Says all movement through threatened squares provokes attacks of opportunity...does this include Tumble and other forms of movement that might not provoke AoO?
Forgarn
10-17-07, 04:29 PM For the first one, I don't think so because you cannot attack that person normally (I will need to check on that but I believe you can't because of the person in between)

#2 - you can only make standard action attacks. Trip and disarm are full round actions and cannot be done on an AoO.

#3 - you need to read the cleric. If they call it spontaneous casting that yes it does, but only for clerics.

#4 - You can with a halbert as long as there is nothing in between. That is the advantage of a reach weapon, you have a 10' area of threat that allows you to make an AoO.
StevenO
10-17-07, 04:37 PM 1. Your opponent has cover because of the interposing body therefore no AoO. There may be a feat to override that but I don't think I've ever seen an official one.

2. Use any melee attack you like. Possible option include: Attack, grapple, disarm, trip, sunder. Note that some of these may provoke an AoO in response which could lead to a series of AoO if both parties have Combat Reflexes and a high Dex.

3. A cleric may not normally sacrifice a spell for Heal or Harm. Although they restore hp they are not "Cure" spells. Note that there is a variation somewhere that instead of converting spells spontaneously to cure/inflict instead lets you convert spells into a domain spell. With this and the Healing Domain is would be possible to convert spells into Heal.

4. Yes, a Spiked Chain also threatens and can attack into adjacent squares. Read the description(s). It is one of the few reach weapons that can normally do this.

5. No idea as I don't have the source. Given what is said here there are two ways I could interpet that. Most likely it allows AoO on movement that normally wouldn't. The other option is that it allows multiple AoO based on a movement instead of just one; normally if I move around someone (8 squares) I'd only provoke one AoO based on movement but with this variation I could get hit by an AoO each square.
BoringInfoGuy
10-17-07, 04:39 PM #2 - you can only make standard action attacks. Trip and disarm are full round actions and cannot be done on an AoO.

Trip and Disarm are standard actions, not full round actions. Yes, they can be used in place of a standard attack when making an Attack of Opportunity.
Forgarn
10-17-07, 04:42 PM *Misinformed lout removes his response*
Meat_Shield
10-17-07, 04:57 PM On the first and last questions (the most pressing) if you could state a source (and/or a link) to back up the info. provided I would greatly appreciate it as I need to be able to show something to the DM not just blindly say "Because I read it on the internet"...even though everything written on the internet is true....:confused:
Marcus Majarra
10-17-07, 05:53 PM If there is an enemy (or ally?) between me and my enemy but he does something to provoke an attack of opportunity and is within my reach (Lets say I have a 10 foot reach) can I stlil make that AoO with an enemty (or ally) between me and my target? I thought there was a feat that let you do this, can't find it..if I can then that would indicate no (Is this becasue you can't make AoO against a target with cover?)
PHB151 states that "you can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you." So unless you have a feat or another ability that allows you to ignore cover for purposes of executing AoOs, any target with cover is safe.

What melee attack actions can you take with an AoO? Can I disarm and/or trip when making an AoO? I'm assuming anything you normally could do /w a melee attack action.
Your assumption is correct. PHB141 displays a table for which footnote 7 indicates actions that substitute for melee attacks. It explicitly indicates that these attack forms can be used as AoOs.

Spontanesouly casting dosen't let you sac spells for Heal (or Harm if you channel negative energy) right?
Right. PHB32 states the following:

"The cleric can 'lose' any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name)."

A similar logic applies to clerics who can spontaneously cast inflict spells. Since heal doesn't contain "cure" in its name, nor does harm contain "inflict", these spells cannot be spontaneously cast by clerics.

Can I make attacks against an adjacent enemy if I'm wielding a spike chain? (I know you cna't with a halberd w/o that feat..also, dosen't say anywhere I can't so I assume I can?)
PHB115 states that "unlike most other weapons with reach, [the spiked chain] can be used against an adjacent foe. Furthermore, the halberd is not a reach weapon.

Thicket of Blades (Martial Stance). Says all movement through threatened squares provokes attacks of opportunity...does this include Tumble and other forms of movement that might not provoke AoO?
The Tome of Battle states, on page 61, that "any opponent you threaten that takes any sort of movement, including a 5-foot step, provokes an attack of opportunity from you." Tumbling falls under the "any sort of movement" category, which means that tumbling will not protect you against this stance.
PantherFern
10-17-07, 11:07 PM Looks like Marcus cleared that all up :)

That option StevenO mentioned up there is in PhBII under cleric alternate packages - Sponaneous Domain Casting - where you can swap out spontaneously casting Cure/Inflict minor/light/moderate/serious wounds for spntaneously casting from one of your domains instead. So I suppose if you use that with a domain that includes heal/harm it could work. But under core spontaneous casting, heal/harm are not doable.
Meat_Shield
10-18-07, 04:23 AM Yeah, Marcus tore that up. Thanks a lot everyone for helping to clear those sticky areas up for me! PS: Does anyone have a good link to an UberCharger build? And what is MJD?
goawayugh
10-18-07, 07:55 AM Yeah, Marcus tore that up. Thanks a lot everyone for helping to clear those sticky areas up for me! PS: Does anyone have a good link to an UberCharger build? And what is MJD?

Do you mean MDJ? mordenkainin's (sp?) disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm). It's dispel magic on steroids.
eamon
10-18-07, 10:59 AM As a final detail; I don't think there's a feat that let's you attack opponents with cover as an AoO, however, the exotic weapon master (Complete Warrior) has an exotic weapon stunt which allows this. It's a good 3-level prestige with full bab, and an interesting "stunt" feature every level (though you might wisely choose not to take all three levels as there aren't three useful features for every character)

Prereqs:
BAB: +6, Skills: Craft (weaponsmithing) 3 ranks. Feats: Weapon Focus (any exotic weapon)
Meat_Shield
10-18-07, 03:33 PM AH HA! There we go, that's what I was looking for. Thanks much!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meat_Shield 10-17-07, 04:23 PM	Hey everyone, I have a few questions, mostly centered around AoO. -If there is an enemy (or ally?) between me and my enemy but he does something to provoke an attack of opportunity and is within my reach (Lets say I have a 10 foot reach) can I stlil make that AoO with an enemty (or ally) between me and my target? I thought there was a feat that let you do this, can't find it..if I can then that would indicate no (Is this becasue you can't make AoO against a target with cover?) -What melee attack actions can you take with an AoO? Can I disarm and/or trip when making an AoO? I'm assuming anything you normally could do /w a melee attack action. -Spontanesouly casting dosen't let you sac spells for Heal (or Harm if you channel negative energy) right? -Can I make attacks against an adjacent enemy if I'm wielding a spike chain? (I know you cna't with a halberd w/o that feat..also, dosen't say anywhere I can't so I assume I can?) -Thicket of Blades (Martial Stance). Says all movement through threatened squares provokes attacks of opportunity...does this include Tumble and other forms of movement that might not provoke AoO?
Forgarn 10-17-07, 04:29 PM	For the first one, I don't think so because you cannot attack that person normally (I will need to check on that but I believe you can't because of the person in between) #2 - you can only make standard action attacks. Trip and disarm are full round actions and cannot be done on an AoO. #3 - you need to read the cleric. If they call it spontaneous casting that yes it does, but only for clerics. #4 - You can with a halbert as long as there is nothing in between. That is the advantage of a reach weapon, you have a 10' area of threat that allows you to make an AoO.
StevenO 10-17-07, 04:37 PM	1. Your opponent has cover because of the interposing body therefore no AoO. There may be a feat to override that but I don't think I've ever seen an official one. 2. Use any melee attack you like. Possible option include: Attack, grapple, disarm, trip, sunder. Note that some of these may provoke an AoO in response which could lead to a series of AoO if both parties have Combat Reflexes and a high Dex. 3. A cleric may not normally sacrifice a spell for Heal or Harm. Although they restore hp they are not "Cure" spells. Note that there is a variation somewhere that instead of converting spells spontaneously to cure/inflict instead lets you convert spells into a domain spell. With this and the Healing Domain is would be possible to convert spells into Heal. 4. Yes, a Spiked Chain also threatens and can attack into adjacent squares. Read the description(s). It is one of the few reach weapons that can normally do this. 5. No idea as I don't have the source. Given what is said here there are two ways I could interpet that. Most likely it allows AoO on movement that normally wouldn't. The other option is that it allows multiple AoO based on a movement instead of just one; normally if I move around someone (8 squares) I'd only provoke one AoO based on movement but with this variation I could get hit by an AoO each square.
BoringInfoGuy 10-17-07, 04:39 PM	#2 - you can only make standard action attacks. Trip and disarm are full round actions and cannot be done on an AoO. Trip and Disarm are standard actions, not full round actions. Yes, they can be used in place of a standard attack when making an Attack of Opportunity.
Forgarn 10-17-07, 04:42 PM	Misinformed lout removes his response
Meat_Shield 10-17-07, 04:57 PM	On the first and last questions (the most pressing) if you could state a source (and/or a link) to back up the info. provided I would greatly appreciate it as I need to be able to show something to the DM not just blindly say "Because I read it on the internet"...even though everything written on the internet is true....:confused:
Marcus Majarra 10-17-07, 05:53 PM	If there is an enemy (or ally?) between me and my enemy but he does something to provoke an attack of opportunity and is within my reach (Lets say I have a 10 foot reach) can I stlil make that AoO with an enemty (or ally) between me and my target? I thought there was a feat that let you do this, can't find it..if I can then that would indicate no (Is this becasue you can't make AoO against a target with cover?) PHB151 states that "you can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you." So unless you have a feat or another ability that allows you to ignore cover for purposes of executing AoOs, any target with cover is safe. What melee attack actions can you take with an AoO? Can I disarm and/or trip when making an AoO? I'm assuming anything you normally could do /w a melee attack action. Your assumption is correct. PHB141 displays a table for which footnote 7 indicates actions that substitute for melee attacks. It explicitly indicates that these attack forms can be used as AoOs. Spontanesouly casting dosen't let you sac spells for Heal (or Harm if you channel negative energy) right? Right. PHB32 states the following: "The cleric can 'lose' any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name)." A similar logic applies to clerics who can spontaneously cast inflict spells. Since heal doesn't contain "cure" in its name, nor does harm contain "inflict", these spells cannot be spontaneously cast by clerics. Can I make attacks against an adjacent enemy if I'm wielding a spike chain? (I know you cna't with a halberd w/o that feat..also, dosen't say anywhere I can't so I assume I can?) PHB115 states that "unlike most other weapons with reach, [the spiked chain] can be used against an adjacent foe. Furthermore, the halberd is not a reach weapon. Thicket of Blades (Martial Stance). Says all movement through threatened squares provokes attacks of opportunity...does this include Tumble and other forms of movement that might not provoke AoO? The Tome of Battle states, on page 61, that "any opponent you threaten that takes any sort of movement, including a 5-foot step, provokes an attack of opportunity from you." Tumbling falls under the "any sort of movement" category, which means that tumbling will not protect you against this stance.
PantherFern 10-17-07, 11:07 PM	Looks like Marcus cleared that all up :) That option StevenO mentioned up there is in PhBII under cleric alternate packages - Sponaneous Domain Casting - where you can swap out spontaneously casting Cure/Inflict minor/light/moderate/serious wounds for spntaneously casting from one of your domains instead. So I suppose if you use that with a domain that includes heal/harm it could work. But under core spontaneous casting, heal/harm are not doable.
Meat_Shield 10-18-07, 04:23 AM	Yeah, Marcus tore that up. Thanks a lot everyone for helping to clear those sticky areas up for me! PS: Does anyone have a good link to an UberCharger build? And what is MJD?
goawayugh 10-18-07, 07:55 AM	Yeah, Marcus tore that up. Thanks a lot everyone for helping to clear those sticky areas up for me! PS: Does anyone have a good link to an UberCharger build? And what is MJD? Do you mean MDJ? mordenkainin's (sp?) disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm). It's dispel magic on steroids.
eamon 10-18-07, 10:59 AM	As a final detail; I don't think there's a feat that let's you attack opponents with cover as an AoO, however, the exotic weapon master (Complete Warrior) has an exotic weapon stunt which allows this. It's a good 3-level prestige with full bab, and an interesting "stunt" feature every level (though you might wisely choose not to take all three levels as there aren't three useful features for every character) Prereqs: BAB: +6, Skills: Craft (weaponsmithing) 3 ranks. Feats: Weapon Focus (any exotic weapon)
Meat_Shield 10-18-07, 03:33 PM	AH HA! There we go, that's what I was looking for. Thanks much!