Critical Successes and Failures on Skill Checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Successes and Failures on Skill Checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rebel581
07-02-07, 01:19 AM Can you critically fail or critically succeed on a skill check? I know that a 20 is an auto-hit and a 1 is an auto-failure, but how do you treat a 20 on a skill check? If a rogue rolled a 20 on Open Lock, would he open any lock? How would you treat it for the DCs that are really high (like 40+). I'm asking assuming the 20 is treated as 30 rule doesn't exist.
Anathema
07-02-07, 01:28 AM Nope. PHB pg63.
JustinA
07-02-07, 01:28 AM Can you critically fail or critically succeed on a skill check? I know that a 20 is an auto-hit and a 1 is an auto-failure, but how do you treat a 20 on a skill check? If a rogue rolled a 20 on Open Lock, would he open any lock? How would you treat it for the DCs that are really high (like 40+). I'm asking assuming the 20 is treated as 30 rule doesn't exist.

No.

A good way to remember this is that, if you can take 20 on a check, then you won't automatically succeed on a 20 (and vice versa).
Salla
07-02-07, 01:28 AM No. A 1 or a 20 rolled on a skill check has no special effects (with the exception of Use Magic Device). You are not automatically successful on a natural 20 or automatically failing on a natural 1.

For an example of why not:
"I've been a carpenter for 20 years, yet one time out of 20, I miss the nail!"
"I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!"
PenderGrass
07-02-07, 03:45 AM For an example of why not:
"I've been a carpenter for 20 years, yet one time out of 20, I miss the nail!"
"I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!"
A good example of why not to use real-world examples.

1. Craft: Carpentry never requires you to roll to see if you can hammer each individual nail.
2. If you were required to roll for each nail, it would likely be an attack roll - and therefore by RAW you would have a 1 in 20 chance of an automatic miss.
3. If you missed your leap across the Atlantic, you would also need to survive all the swimming skill checks to make it back to shore (and considering the odds of failing that and the lethality of drowning... well, it might not be pretty).

:P

:dragon:
****
Inigo Carmine
07-02-07, 10:17 AM 3. If you missed your leap across the Atlantic, you would also need to survive all the swimming skill checks to make it back to shore (and considering the odds of failing that and the lethality of drowning... well, it might not be pretty).

would be about DC 16,000,000 (from US to North Africa), but considering that failing the DC means you jump anywhere from 1-19 ft (for most people), the swim back to shore usually isn't too treacherous.
Myers
07-02-07, 10:37 AM Either way the point is still applicable, 20 is not an auto success in skill checks. Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly.

Whatever the case skill checks allow you to "attempt" anything, and not everything should be possible, IE jumping over 600', A giant disguising himself as a halfling, concentrating on a spell while standing in molten lava (assuming no immunity to it). Hearing someone whisper from 200 miles away. Either way the concept of auto success should not apply to impossibilities. Now house ruling in things you can rule a natural 20 adds an extra 10 or something reasonable without harming the general rules of the game.
PenderGrass
07-02-07, 01:24 PM Either way the point is still applicable, 20 is not an auto success in skill checks. Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly.
He likely would be better off attacking the ground - bullrush?

If he misses, then he might be flying.

Then again, if he did bullrush, he would likely provoke an AoO from the ground.

:dragon:
****
weasel0
07-02-07, 01:42 PM Then again, if he did bullrush, he would likely provoke an AoO from the ground.

It's a proven fact that the earth gets an init just like everything else. It merely readies an action to hit the first thing that bullrushes it. And the earth is always in melee range with something and is therefore always in combat.
Some_call_me_Tim
07-02-07, 01:45 PM There is a sidebar in the DMG that deals with this (p. 34). Generally, I just describe the action has having a little extra panache, or as an extremely clumsy failure.

I sometimes do give little bonuses if I'm feeling generous. For example, if the rogue was being chased and time was of the essence, I might allow a critical success to open the lock as a standard action instead of a full-round action. Outside of combat this makes very little difference, but it can sometimes be fun for the "skill monkey" to be able to crit too.
PenderGrass
07-02-07, 05:02 PM ...but it can sometimes be fun for the "skill monkey" to be able to crit too.
Just as fun for them to make a blunder a-la Ham Salad's infamous failed bluff:

"We're all fine. Just had a weapons malfunction. But, we're all fine. Just fine. How're you?"

"What's your operating number?"

:dragon:
****
Mock26
07-02-07, 06:04 PM Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly.

As Douglas Adams taught us, flying is the act of throwing yourself at the ground and missing!
PenderGrass
07-02-07, 08:52 PM As Douglas Adams taught us, flying is the act of throwing yourself at the ground and missing!
Hence the attack roll suggested earlier.

:dragon:
****
DoveArrow
07-03-07, 04:19 PM "I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!"

Honestly, if you hit those trade winds right... :P
Mock26
07-03-07, 06:59 PM Honestly, if you hit those trade winds right... :P

Well, given the speed at which the earth rotates it should be as simple as simply jumping straight up and watching the earch rotate beneath you and then just land when the other side of the ocean rolls past. :D
PenderGrass
07-03-07, 08:48 PM Well, give the speed at which the earth rotates it should be as simple as simply jumping straight up and watching the earch rotate beneath you and then just land when the other side of the ocean rolls past. :D
The speed of the earth would mean you better have a freaking fast running landing, lest you break your leg upon hitting the ground.

:dragon:
****
Mock26
07-03-07, 08:57 PM The speed of the earth would mean you better have a freaking fast running landing, lest you break your leg upon hitting the ground.

:dragon:
****
I didn't say that there weren't any flaws with my plan! :D
weasel0
07-03-07, 10:24 PM Just nit-picking cause you thought of it first. People are always jealous and hateful of the genius.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rebel581 07-02-07, 01:19 AM	Can you critically fail or critically succeed on a skill check? I know that a 20 is an auto-hit and a 1 is an auto-failure, but how do you treat a 20 on a skill check? If a rogue rolled a 20 on Open Lock, would he open any lock? How would you treat it for the DCs that are really high (like 40+). I'm asking assuming the 20 is treated as 30 rule doesn't exist.
Anathema 07-02-07, 01:28 AM	Nope. PHB pg63.
JustinA 07-02-07, 01:28 AM	Can you critically fail or critically succeed on a skill check? I know that a 20 is an auto-hit and a 1 is an auto-failure, but how do you treat a 20 on a skill check? If a rogue rolled a 20 on Open Lock, would he open any lock? How would you treat it for the DCs that are really high (like 40+). I'm asking assuming the 20 is treated as 30 rule doesn't exist. No. A good way to remember this is that, if you can take 20 on a check, then you won't automatically succeed on a 20 (and vice versa).
Salla 07-02-07, 01:28 AM	No. A 1 or a 20 rolled on a skill check has no special effects (with the exception of Use Magic Device). You are not automatically successful on a natural 20 or automatically failing on a natural 1. For an example of why not: "I've been a carpenter for 20 years, yet one time out of 20, I miss the nail!" "I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!"
PenderGrass 07-02-07, 03:45 AM	For an example of why not: "I've been a carpenter for 20 years, yet one time out of 20, I miss the nail!" "I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!" A good example of why not to use real-world examples. 1. Craft: Carpentry never requires you to roll to see if you can hammer each individual nail. 2. If you were required to roll for each nail, it would likely be an attack roll - and therefore by RAW you would have a 1 in 20 chance of an automatic miss. 3. If you missed your leap across the Atlantic, you would also need to survive all the swimming skill checks to make it back to shore (and considering the odds of failing that and the lethality of drowning... well, it might not be pretty). :P :dragon: ****
Inigo Carmine 07-02-07, 10:17 AM	3. If you missed your leap across the Atlantic, you would also need to survive all the swimming skill checks to make it back to shore (and considering the odds of failing that and the lethality of drowning... well, it might not be pretty). would be about DC 16,000,000 (from US to North Africa), but considering that failing the DC means you jump anywhere from 1-19 ft (for most people), the swim back to shore usually isn't too treacherous.
Myers 07-02-07, 10:37 AM	Either way the point is still applicable, 20 is not an auto success in skill checks. Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly. Whatever the case skill checks allow you to "attempt" anything, and not everything should be possible, IE jumping over 600', A giant disguising himself as a halfling, concentrating on a spell while standing in molten lava (assuming no immunity to it). Hearing someone whisper from 200 miles away. Either way the concept of auto success should not apply to impossibilities. Now house ruling in things you can rule a natural 20 adds an extra 10 or something reasonable without harming the general rules of the game.
PenderGrass 07-02-07, 01:24 PM	Either way the point is still applicable, 20 is not an auto success in skill checks. Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly. He likely would be better off attacking the ground - bullrush? If he misses, then he might be flying. Then again, if he did bullrush, he would likely provoke an AoO from the ground. :dragon: ****
weasel0 07-02-07, 01:42 PM	Then again, if he did bullrush, he would likely provoke an AoO from the ground. It's a proven fact that the earth gets an init just like everything else. It merely readies an action to hit the first thing that bullrushes it. And the earth is always in melee range with something and is therefore always in combat.
Some_call_me_Tim 07-02-07, 01:45 PM	There is a sidebar in the DMG that deals with this (p. 34). Generally, I just describe the action has having a little extra panache, or as an extremely clumsy failure. I sometimes do give little bonuses if I'm feeling generous. For example, if the rogue was being chased and time was of the essence, I might allow a critical success to open the lock as a standard action instead of a full-round action. Outside of combat this makes very little difference, but it can sometimes be fun for the "skill monkey" to be able to crit too.
PenderGrass 07-02-07, 05:02 PM	...but it can sometimes be fun for the "skill monkey" to be able to crit too. Just as fun for them to make a blunder a-la Ham Salad's infamous failed bluff: "We're all fine. Just had a weapons malfunction. But, we're all fine. Just fine. How're you?" "What's your operating number?" :dragon: ****
Mock26 07-02-07, 06:04 PM	Much like my players who tried to jump to the ground, hoping for a natural 1 so he could fly. As Douglas Adams taught us, flying is the act of throwing yourself at the ground and missing!
PenderGrass 07-02-07, 08:52 PM	As Douglas Adams taught us, flying is the act of throwing yourself at the ground and missing! Hence the attack roll suggested earlier. :dragon: ****
DoveArrow 07-03-07, 04:19 PM	"I'm trying to leap across the Atlantic Ocean ... I usually fail, but 1 time out of 20, I make it!" Honestly, if you hit those trade winds right... :P
Mock26 07-03-07, 06:59 PM	Honestly, if you hit those trade winds right... :P Well, given the speed at which the earth rotates it should be as simple as simply jumping straight up and watching the earch rotate beneath you and then just land when the other side of the ocean rolls past. :D
PenderGrass 07-03-07, 08:48 PM	Well, give the speed at which the earth rotates it should be as simple as simply jumping straight up and watching the earch rotate beneath you and then just land when the other side of the ocean rolls past. :D The speed of the earth would mean you better have a freaking fast running landing, lest you break your leg upon hitting the ground. :dragon: ****
Mock26 07-03-07, 08:57 PM	The speed of the earth would mean you better have a freaking fast running landing, lest you break your leg upon hitting the ground. :dragon: **** I didn't say that there weren't any flaws with my plan! :D
weasel0 07-03-07, 10:24 PM	Just nit-picking cause you thought of it first. People are always jealous and hateful of the genius.