Cube of Force [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cube of Force [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Morray
06-29-07, 10:52 AM Could someone help me on this item.

I have a player who is trying to tell me that only the list of spells in the description cannot be cast out of the cube for someone who is protected.

I am saying that if he is using the side that doesn't allow magic, or all things to pass that he cannot cast spells out of the cube.

Could I get some other input. He keeps sending me all these captions and bits from emails to others about it to me as a way to show he's right and I'd like to get an unbiased response.
TwiddleStootch
06-29-07, 11:15 AM Well, first of all:

It enables its possessor to put up a special wall of force 10 feet on a side around her person.

So, it replicates Wall of Force...

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier.

So, only Teleportation spells, (which I assume means any thing with the "Conjuration (Teleportation)" school descriptor) can pass through it.

The spells list for the Cube of Force are just the ones that can damage it. It was just restating that they can not be cast through it to be clear.
weasel0
06-29-07, 11:38 AM The context includes the previous sentence which says some spells deal more damage. "These spells..." then tells you which ones deal more damage, and then specifies that they can't be cast through the wall.
Morray
07-02-07, 08:29 AM Thanks guys, you've pretty much restated my own understanding of the spell but I needed that 'third' party non biased opinion. :-)

I do have one other on it though, how many people can it protect. Because it states 10ft one of the players, wants to have his cohort in the cube with him, however the spell also states it's possessor puts up the screen.
TwiddleStootch
07-02-07, 12:17 PM Well, I wouldn't see why more then one creature couldn't be inside the cube.
If it is 10 feet on a side, then it encompasses 4 squares.

However, the force walls only move with the cube, so it could be tricky for the other creatures to move.
Morray
07-02-07, 01:27 PM Well, I wouldn't see why more then one creature couldn't be inside the cube.
If it is 10 feet on a side, then it encompasses 4 squares.

However, the force walls only move with the cube, so it could be tricky for the other creatures to move.

and this is were it get's tricky, since the possessor still has to occupy a square, if he's in the center.

Also, the movement only specifies that the 'possessor's' movement is slowed, which to me is another indication that it's meant only for the sole person holding onto the cube.

While I can see the whole concept the players are describing. Yes, it's 10ft and you can squeeze a multitude of people into it, I just don't believe that was the intent of the item. Of course I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking :)
weasel0
07-02-07, 01:38 PM Well, if they inhabitants are squishing themselves into the cube... let them. The great thing about being a live game at a table, is you can rule on the fly to allow for realistic ideas to come about. So it slows everyone down. Every delays until the owners init, and then they move together at once. No big deal. At this point they arn't in melee anymore cause of the wall between them and enemies, just watch as they all come spilling out when the cube is used up. :)
Mock26
07-02-07, 06:37 PM On a side note, just dump a couple tons of debris on top of a cube of force!
Morray
07-04-07, 11:29 AM Does anyone know of anything written to explain this better? So far it looks like it's completely up to DM interpertation.
TwiddleStootch
07-04-07, 01:36 PM ....
So far it looks like it's completely up to DM interpertation.

Welcome to DnD :D
Frieza-Prexus
07-08-07, 11:02 PM First, I think personally that it blocks all effects both ways. No spells in or out.

The rest of my group reads that because there's a line that says "cannot be cast into or out of" the cube means that some spells can exit. Yes, some spells can exit on lower settings of course, but my group also interprets this to mean spells can exit at its highest setting (keeps *out* all magic). For them "out" is the operative word.

I sent a question to customer service (I know, I know) a few months back and they actually told me that you can exit and cast willy nilly out of the cube regardless of its setting.
Werebat
07-08-07, 11:28 PM Could someone help me on this item.

I have a player who is trying to tell me that only the list of spells in the description cannot be cast out of the cube for someone who is protected.

I am saying that if he is using the side that doesn't allow magic, or all things to pass that he cannot cast spells out of the cube.

Could I get some other input. He keeps sending me all these captions and bits from emails to others about it to me as a way to show he's right and I'd like to get an unbiased response.

Yeah, this item is like the most poorly described item in the DMG.

I have a player who bought one, and in an effort to avoid endless arguments with him about every little thing, I overhauled the cube and came up with this. Feel free to steal it. :D

Cube of Force:

• As stated in the item description, the walls of the cube are derived from the wall of force spell. They are special in that they are selective in what they screen out, generally ignoring (and passing harmlessly through) anything not specifically kept out by the active effect of the cube. For example, when set to its first activation (keeps out gasses, wind, etc) the walls of the cube will pass harmlessly through solid living and nonliving matter, enabling the possessor to walk through a 5’ wide stone corridor.

• Like a wall of force spell, the walls generated by the cube are invisible.

• Activating the cube, changing the active effect, or shutting the cube down are all move actions.

• When activated, the walls of the cube spring up instantly at the appropriate distance from the possessor. They do not push anything out of the cube’s area when it is activated.

• The walls of the cube prevent movement of the barred substances and effects in both directions. This is not a one-way blocking. Barred substances and effects cannot move out of the cube either, unless those substances or effects could normally pass through a wall of force (see the spell, wall of force, for more information). Thus, the second activation (keeps out nonliving matter) would protect those outside the cube from arrows fired by those inside of the cube. Note that some spells and spell-like effects (for example, dimension door and most gaze attacks) are capable of passing through a wall of force and are therefore also capable of passing through the walls generated by a cube of force set to its fourth or fifth setting (keeps out magic and keeps out all things). This generally includes spells and effects that do not require line of effect in order to function.

• Creatures within 5’ of the cube that would be trapped inside or outside when it is activated get a DC 17 Reflex save to avoid being trapped. If they make the save, they may move to any unoccupied square within five feet to avoid being trapped inside or outside the cube.

• Barred gasses, creatures, and effects without mass (non-corporeal undead and most magical auras and emanations, for example) are temporarily pushed back or turned aside by the force walls if advanced upon.

• Barred creatures, objects, and effects that have solid or liquid mass are blocked by (and block) the walls of the cube. Thus, at its second setting (keeps out nonliving matter) the cube cannot normally pass through a 5’ opening in a stone wall. Such creatures may be bull rushed by the cube’s possessor (and may bull rush him). Creatures holding barred objects may similarly bull rush or be bull rushed.

• Barred and unattended objects in the path of the cube may be pushed forward or aside (space permitting) as if the possessor were pushing them himself. If the possessor does not have the strength to move the items himself, then the cube is blocked by them.

• As with a wall of force, if a barred creature or object is in the path of any of the planes of the cube of force when it is created, the charge will be drained but the cube will fail to manifest.

• In addition to the extra charges drained from heavy damage to the cube, any spell or effect barred by the cube that is capable of bringing down a wall of force (including the disintegrate and Mordenkainen’s disjunction spells as well as the rod of cancellation and sphere of annihilation items) will have the same chance to bring down the walls of the cube; this will prevent the cube from operating for 1d4 rounds just as if it had been targeted by a successful dispel magic spell. For example, a cube set to keep out magic is struck by the ray of a disintegrate spell (perhaps accidentally, if the caster didn’t realize the cube was present in the first place and simply targeted someone inside of the cube) cast by a 12th level caster. The ray is barred from reaching its target and instead does 24d6 points of damage to the cube, draining 1 charge for every 10 points of damage beyond 30 as per the rules regarding damage to the cube. In addition, the cube itself is shut down for 1d4 rounds because a disintegrate spell will bring down a wall of force. Effects capable of bringing down a wall of force that do not actually deal any damage (ie dispel magic) do not drain extra charges. A dispel magic spell cast to target the wall generated by the cube will effectively target the cube itself (regardless of which setting the cube is on at the time). A sphere of annihilation or artifact of similar power will shut down the cube and drain all of its charges for the day but will be momentarily stopped by the cube (unable to move any further) for the remainder of the turn.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morray 06-29-07, 10:52 AM	Could someone help me on this item. I have a player who is trying to tell me that only the list of spells in the description cannot be cast out of the cube for someone who is protected. I am saying that if he is using the side that doesn't allow magic, or all things to pass that he cannot cast spells out of the cube. Could I get some other input. He keeps sending me all these captions and bits from emails to others about it to me as a way to show he's right and I'd like to get an unbiased response.
TwiddleStootch 06-29-07, 11:15 AM	Well, first of all: It enables its possessor to put up a special wall of force 10 feet on a side around her person. So, it replicates Wall of Force... Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. So, only Teleportation spells, (which I assume means any thing with the "Conjuration (Teleportation)" school descriptor) can pass through it. The spells list for the Cube of Force are just the ones that can damage it. It was just restating that they can not be cast through it to be clear.
weasel0 06-29-07, 11:38 AM	The context includes the previous sentence which says some spells deal more damage. "These spells..." then tells you which ones deal more damage, and then specifies that they can't be cast through the wall.
Morray 07-02-07, 08:29 AM	Thanks guys, you've pretty much restated my own understanding of the spell but I needed that 'third' party non biased opinion. :-) I do have one other on it though, how many people can it protect. Because it states 10ft one of the players, wants to have his cohort in the cube with him, however the spell also states it's possessor puts up the screen.
TwiddleStootch 07-02-07, 12:17 PM	Well, I wouldn't see why more then one creature couldn't be inside the cube. If it is 10 feet on a side, then it encompasses 4 squares. However, the force walls only move with the cube, so it could be tricky for the other creatures to move.
Morray 07-02-07, 01:27 PM	Well, I wouldn't see why more then one creature couldn't be inside the cube. If it is 10 feet on a side, then it encompasses 4 squares. However, the force walls only move with the cube, so it could be tricky for the other creatures to move. and this is were it get's tricky, since the possessor still has to occupy a square, if he's in the center. Also, the movement only specifies that the 'possessor's' movement is slowed, which to me is another indication that it's meant only for the sole person holding onto the cube. While I can see the whole concept the players are describing. Yes, it's 10ft and you can squeeze a multitude of people into it, I just don't believe that was the intent of the item. Of course I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking :)
weasel0 07-02-07, 01:38 PM	Well, if they inhabitants are squishing themselves into the cube... let them. The great thing about being a live game at a table, is you can rule on the fly to allow for realistic ideas to come about. So it slows everyone down. Every delays until the owners init, and then they move together at once. No big deal. At this point they arn't in melee anymore cause of the wall between them and enemies, just watch as they all come spilling out when the cube is used up. :)
Mock26 07-02-07, 06:37 PM	On a side note, just dump a couple tons of debris on top of a cube of force!
Morray 07-04-07, 11:29 AM	Does anyone know of anything written to explain this better? So far it looks like it's completely up to DM interpertation.
TwiddleStootch 07-04-07, 01:36 PM	.... So far it looks like it's completely up to DM interpertation. Welcome to DnD :D
Frieza-Prexus 07-08-07, 11:02 PM	First, I think personally that it blocks all effects both ways. No spells in or out. The rest of my group reads that because there's a line that says "cannot be cast into or out of" the cube means that some spells can exit. Yes, some spells can exit on lower settings of course, but my group also interprets this to mean spells can exit at its highest setting (keeps out all magic). For them "out" is the operative word. I sent a question to customer service (I know, I know) a few months back and they actually told me that you can exit and cast willy nilly out of the cube regardless of its setting.
Werebat 07-08-07, 11:28 PM	Could someone help me on this item. I have a player who is trying to tell me that only the list of spells in the description cannot be cast out of the cube for someone who is protected. I am saying that if he is using the side that doesn't allow magic, or all things to pass that he cannot cast spells out of the cube. Could I get some other input. He keeps sending me all these captions and bits from emails to others about it to me as a way to show he's right and I'd like to get an unbiased response. Yeah, this item is like the most poorly described item in the DMG. I have a player who bought one, and in an effort to avoid endless arguments with him about every little thing, I overhauled the cube and came up with this. Feel free to steal it. :D Cube of Force: • As stated in the item description, the walls of the cube are derived from the wall of force spell. They are special in that they are selective in what they screen out, generally ignoring (and passing harmlessly through) anything not specifically kept out by the active effect of the cube. For example, when set to its first activation (keeps out gasses, wind, etc) the walls of the cube will pass harmlessly through solid living and nonliving matter, enabling the possessor to walk through a 5’ wide stone corridor. • Like a wall of force spell, the walls generated by the cube are invisible. • Activating the cube, changing the active effect, or shutting the cube down are all move actions. • When activated, the walls of the cube spring up instantly at the appropriate distance from the possessor. They do not push anything out of the cube’s area when it is activated. • The walls of the cube prevent movement of the barred substances and effects in both directions. This is not a one-way blocking. Barred substances and effects cannot move out of the cube either, unless those substances or effects could normally pass through a wall of force (see the spell, wall of force, for more information). Thus, the second activation (keeps out nonliving matter) would protect those outside the cube from arrows fired by those inside of the cube. Note that some spells and spell-like effects (for example, dimension door and most gaze attacks) are capable of passing through a wall of force and are therefore also capable of passing through the walls generated by a cube of force set to its fourth or fifth setting (keeps out magic and keeps out all things). This generally includes spells and effects that do not require line of effect in order to function. • Creatures within 5’ of the cube that would be trapped inside or outside when it is activated get a DC 17 Reflex save to avoid being trapped. If they make the save, they may move to any unoccupied square within five feet to avoid being trapped inside or outside the cube. • Barred gasses, creatures, and effects without mass (non-corporeal undead and most magical auras and emanations, for example) are temporarily pushed back or turned aside by the force walls if advanced upon. • Barred creatures, objects, and effects that have solid or liquid mass are blocked by (and block) the walls of the cube. Thus, at its second setting (keeps out nonliving matter) the cube cannot normally pass through a 5’ opening in a stone wall. Such creatures may be bull rushed by the cube’s possessor (and may bull rush him). Creatures holding barred objects may similarly bull rush or be bull rushed. • Barred and unattended objects in the path of the cube may be pushed forward or aside (space permitting) as if the possessor were pushing them himself. If the possessor does not have the strength to move the items himself, then the cube is blocked by them. • As with a wall of force, if a barred creature or object is in the path of any of the planes of the cube of force when it is created, the charge will be drained but the cube will fail to manifest. • In addition to the extra charges drained from heavy damage to the cube, any spell or effect barred by the cube that is capable of bringing down a wall of force (including the disintegrate and Mordenkainen’s disjunction spells as well as the rod of cancellation and sphere of annihilation items) will have the same chance to bring down the walls of the cube; this will prevent the cube from operating for 1d4 rounds just as if it had been targeted by a successful dispel magic spell. For example, a cube set to keep out magic is struck by the ray of a disintegrate spell (perhaps accidentally, if the caster didn’t realize the cube was present in the first place and simply targeted someone inside of the cube) cast by a 12th level caster. The ray is barred from reaching its target and instead does 24d6 points of damage to the cube, draining 1 charge for every 10 points of damage beyond 30 as per the rules regarding damage to the cube. In addition, the cube itself is shut down for 1d4 rounds because a disintegrate spell will bring down a wall of force. Effects capable of bringing down a wall of force that do not actually deal any damage (ie dispel magic) do not drain extra charges. A dispel magic spell cast to target the wall generated by the cube will effectively target the cube itself (regardless of which setting the cube is on at the time). A sphere of annihilation or artifact of similar power will shut down the cube and drain all of its charges for the day but will be momentarily stopped by the cube (unable to move any further) for the remainder of the turn.