Damaging Magic Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damaging Magic Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spiller
03-17-07, 10:19 AM Hi,

I remember (maybe from 3.0) that damaging (attended) magic items requires a magic weapon or a damaging spell, i.e. mundane weapons can't damage them.

I looked over PH and DMG and couldn't find anything supporting this, though. I only found that magic items have better hardness and always get a saving throw.

So I got some questions for you guys:
1) Can a mundane weapon potentially damage a magic item?
2) What about supernatural abilities e.g. black dragon's breath?
3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always?
4) Don't magic items get better HP than their mundane counterparts?
Merestil Haye
03-17-07, 11:39 AM Hi,

I remember (maybe from 3.0) that damaging (attended) magic items requires a magic weapon or a damaging spell, i.e. mundane weapons can't damage them.

I looked over PH and DMG and couldn't find anything supporting this, though. I only found that magic items have better hardness and always get a saving throw.3.5 changed this. Any weapon can now damage any other weapon or shield.

So I got some questions for you guys:
1) Can a mundane weapon potentially damage a magic item?Yes. Even if the target weapon is +5 adamantine. Of course the damage would have to exceed the item's hardness.2) What about supernatural abilities e.g. black dragon's breath?If the item is unattended, yes. if it is attended, only if the attending creature rolls a natural 1 on the save and the item is randomly chosen as the affected one.3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always?Not sure what you mean. If you're asking whether it applies to energy damage, yes it does. I'd say it applies to all damage unless the source explicitly ignores the hardness.4) Don't magic items get better HP than their mundane counterparts?Weapons, armour and shield do; other items do not.
calronmoonflower
03-17-07, 02:46 PM 3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always?

You also subtract hardness from any energy damage. Note that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.
Nom
03-17-07, 05:22 PM You also subtract hardness from any energy damage. Note that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.Common confusion due to poorly worded rule. Rather, sonic and acid damage are not halved (fire, electricity) or quartered (cold) before having their damage applied (and hardness subtracted).
calronmoonflower
03-17-07, 07:49 PM Common confusion due to poorly worded rule. Rather, sonic and acid damage are not halved (fire, electricity) or quartered (cold) before having their damage applied (and hardness subtracted).

I reread the rules for hardness and energy damage and it is indeed poorly worded.

I looked it up in the main 3.5 FAQ and you are right.

• Hardness applies to acid and sonic attacks. These
attacks deal normal damage both to creatures and to
objects, and thus would deal normal damage to an
animated object (less the effect of the hardness). You
would subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever
damage a Melf’s acid arrow spell deals to the
animated table in your example.

It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't.
Nom
03-17-07, 11:58 PM It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't.Huh? Hardness applies against sonic attacks whether they are spells or not, unless the spell description explicitly states that hardness is ignored.
Scribbler
03-18-07, 01:46 AM It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't.

The energy psionic powers give a special ability to each type, and that's part of the ability for sonic. Actually, it has to be noted in the power description since it isn't normal for the energy type (although yes, I do realize that things like that often have reminders in descriptions where it comes up).
spiller
03-18-07, 08:37 AM If the item is unattended, yes. if it is attended, only if the attending creature rolls a natural 1 on the save and the item is randomly chosen as the affected one.

Or if the black dragon specifically targets the magic item, e.g. a magic tower shield, right?

Weapons, armour and shield do; other items do not.

Where can I find this rule?
Merestil Haye
03-18-07, 09:12 AM Or if the black dragon specifically targets the magic item, e.g. a magic tower shield, right?Read the Sunder rules.Sunder
You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.)

(snip)

Sundering a Carried or Worn Object

You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.If the dragon gets up close and personal it can attempt to sunder the item. Unless it has some additional capability, it can not attempt to Sunder an item with a ranged weapon, spell or special ability (such as, for example, its breath weapon).

Where can I find this rule?The rules state that weapons, shields and armour get increased hardness and hit points if they have an enhancement bonus. The rules do not say that for other types of item, therefore those items do not benefit from being magic. it's not a matter of pointing to a rule that says "magic items don't get more hp even though they're magic" - the rules are not written like that. They state general cases and exceptions to those cases. Since there are no rules to give those items bonus hardness and hp, they don't get it.

Of course, if you can find a rule that does give magic items increased hardness and hp, then they do get the increases.
spiller
03-18-07, 10:05 AM The rules state that weapons, shields and armour get increased hardness and hit points if they have an enhancement bonus. The rules do not say that for other types of item, therefore those items do not benefit from being magic. it's not a matter of pointing to a rule that says "magic items don't get more hp even though they're magic" - the rules are not written like that. They state general cases and exceptions to those cases. Since there are no rules to give those items bonus hardness and hp, they don't get it.

Of course, if you can find a rule that does give magic items increased hardness and hp, then they do get the increases.

OK, I found in the PHB that magic weapon and armor get additional hardness according to their enhancement bonus, but I couldn't find anything about additional HP. So I guess I'm just asking where do I find the rule that says how many extra HP a magic weapon/armor gets?
Merestil Haye
03-18-07, 11:13 AM Under Smashing an Object.Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.
SillyRobot
03-18-07, 11:19 AM OK, I found in the PHB that magic weapon and armor get additional hardness according to their enhancement bonus, but I couldn't find anything about additional HP. So I guess I'm just asking where do I find the rule that says how many extra HP a magic weapon/armor gets?

DMG page 222.

Please apply the errata when reading the passage otherwise we'll start this conversation again.
spiller
03-18-07, 06:56 PM OK, gotcha!

Sometimes I just find it hard to find some specific piece of information in these books :rolleyes:

One more question:
If a PC takes full cover from a tower shield, and a black dragon uses her acid breath from the covered direction, does the shield take damage instead of the character, or how else should I run this scenario?
calronmoonflower
03-19-07, 12:17 AM One more question:
If a PC takes full cover from a tower shield, and a black dragon uses her acid breath from the covered direction, does the shield take damage instead of the character, or how else should I run this scenario?

Full cover blocks the line of effect, but your shield would be toast.
SillyRobot
03-19-07, 08:10 AM Full cover blocks the line of effect, but your shield would be toast.

Except that the tower shield is still an attended item and need not make a save.
spiller
03-19-07, 10:56 AM Except that the tower shield is still an attended item and need not make a save.

So basically a tower shield is the perfect defence against a dragon's breath if the PC is in a 5ft wide corridor just outside the room? Especially if the dragon can't reach to sunder it?
Merestil Haye
03-19-07, 12:05 PM Your salvation here is that area attacks that impact a barrier can indeed destroy that barrier. There is precedent in such spells as Lightning Bolt, which contains the following text.If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.Since the breath weapon text does not have this, it means that the tower shield will absorb the damage. However, the tower shield, being an attended object, does get a Reflex save for half damage, using its wielder's Reflex save bonus (unless it is a magic item with a higher bonus than its wielder possesses.) After that is resolved, apply hardness, then if there's any damage left the object takes that amount, divided by the factor for the appropriate energy type.

A Juvenile breath weapon does 8d4 (average 20 points of damage) with a save DC of 18. A 7th level fighter has a Ref save bonus of something around +3 to +5; thus the chance of success is 35% (or about 1 in 3) assuming a nonmagic shield. The shield takes 15 damage if it fails its save, which is not enough to destroy an intact one, or 5 points if it passes. And remember, acid is the best energy attack to employ against objects; the results for electricity, fire and cold would be even worse.
spiller
03-19-07, 08:08 PM Merestil, thanks for the tip! That sounds reasonable enough.

On another note, how does one repair damaged magic items? AFAIK Craft skill is for mundane items only(?)
olshanski_home
03-19-07, 08:26 PM There are no really good rules on fixing magic items that are damage.

My HOUSE RILES are as follows:
1. Any item is at 100% operational until it loses all HP, at which point it is destroyed. This is how HP work for constructs, and how I'll have it work for items.

2. Any item that has taken any damage can be repaired for 1/2 its market price of the raw materials. The "enchantment" does not have to be paid for, because it sticks with the item. IE: A +1 longsword has about 15 hp. If it is damaged, it costs 1/2 the market price to repair. Thus, the longsword costs about 160 gp to repair.

3. An item without a "base price", like a bag of holding, has repair costs determined on an ad-hoc basis.

4. Any magical item that loses all its HP is destroyed, and any magical enhancements or abilities are completely lost.

----------
Note that these house rules make it fairly easy and inexpensive to repair a magical item. I don't see that it should be difficult. It actually makes the Craft skill reasonably useful.

My other house rule is that most effects that are save-or-die for equipment is actually no save but automatic damage. For example, a sword hit by a rust-monster automatically takes 2d6 damage. This means that a non-magical sword is destroyed with a single hit most of the time, while a +1 sword always survives a first hit and often a 2nd hit. This makes combat with rust monsters and black puddings much less random, and assures that those creatures are always a threat (rather than a random save-or-die monster).
calronmoonflower
03-20-07, 02:45 AM There are no really good rules on fixing magic items that are damage.

My HOUSE RILES are as follows:
1. Any item is at 100% operational until it loses all HP, at which point it is destroyed. This is how HP work for constructs, and how I'll have it work for items.

2. Any item that has taken any damage can be repaired for 1/2 its market price of the raw materials. The "enchantment" does not have to be paid for, because it sticks with the item. IE: A +1 longsword has about 15 hp. If it is damaged, it costs 1/2 the market price to repair. Thus, the longsword costs about 160 gp to repair.

3. An item without a "base price", like a bag of holding, has repair costs determined on an ad-hoc basis.

4. Any magical item that loses all its HP is destroyed, and any magical enhancements or abilities are completely lost.

As far as I know
1 is RAW.
2 Magic items can be repaired just like normal items
3 All magic item that I know of (except Bage of Devouring) have a GP cost.
4 Normally destroyed magic items can be repaired ate half the price needed to create it.
olshanski_home
03-20-07, 10:39 AM As far as I know
1 is RAW.
2 Magic items can be repaired just like normal items
3 All magic item that I know of (except Bage of Devouring) have a GP cost.
4 Normally destroyed magic items can be repaired ate half the price needed to create it.

Thanks for your feedback, calronmoonflower, but I think you missed what I was getting at for #3. It is my fault because I used the defined term "base price" when what I meant to say was "raw material" or something like that.

A longsword+2 is worth 8315 gp and has 25 hp.
How much does it cost to repair if it has 5 hp damage?
How much does it cost to repair if it has 20 hp damage?
If the sword is destroyed by a rust monster, can it be repaired for 4157.5 gp?

According to my house rules, the 8000 gp enchantment is built upon the framework of a 315gp masterwork longsword. I rule that any repairs are going to cost 157 gp (half of the masterwork longsword price), whether the sword has taken 5 or 20 hp of damage.
spiller
03-20-07, 03:05 PM Sounds very resonable, olshanski. Maybe a little too easy/inexpensive for my taste, but I could definitely work on something based on that. I just feel that repairing magic items should require something like a Craft [magic item] feat and more expensive raw materials, but that's just me. :)
SillyRobot
03-20-07, 08:52 PM Thanks for your feedback, calronmoonflower, but I think you missed what I was getting at for #3. It is my fault because I used the defined term "base price" when what I meant to say was "raw material" or something like that.

A longsword+2 is worth 8315 gp and has 25 hp.
How much does it cost to repair if it has 5 hp damage?
How much does it cost to repair if it has 20 hp damage?
If the sword is destroyed by a rust monster, can it be repaired for 4157.5 gp?

According to my house rules, the 8000 gp enchantment is built upon the framework of a 315gp masterwork longsword. I rule that any repairs are going to cost 157 gp (half of the masterwork longsword price), whether the sword has taken 5 or 20 hp of damage.

And as Calronmoonflower pointed out, it isn't a house-rule it is RAW.

DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS
<snipped stuff about saving throws>

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS
Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
spiller
03-22-07, 02:26 PM And as Calronmoonflower pointed out, it isn't a house-rule it is RAW.

Actually, he didn't point out directly that part being RAW, but I very much appreciate the clarification! :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spiller 03-17-07, 10:19 AM	Hi, I remember (maybe from 3.0) that damaging (attended) magic items requires a magic weapon or a damaging spell, i.e. mundane weapons can't damage them. I looked over PH and DMG and couldn't find anything supporting this, though. I only found that magic items have better hardness and always get a saving throw. So I got some questions for you guys: 1) Can a mundane weapon potentially damage a magic item? 2) What about supernatural abilities e.g. black dragon's breath? 3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always? 4) Don't magic items get better HP than their mundane counterparts?
Merestil Haye 03-17-07, 11:39 AM	Hi, I remember (maybe from 3.0) that damaging (attended) magic items requires a magic weapon or a damaging spell, i.e. mundane weapons can't damage them. I looked over PH and DMG and couldn't find anything supporting this, though. I only found that magic items have better hardness and always get a saving throw.3.5 changed this. Any weapon can now damage any other weapon or shield. So I got some questions for you guys: 1) Can a mundane weapon potentially damage a magic item?Yes. Even if the target weapon is +5 adamantine. Of course the damage would have to exceed the item's hardness.2) What about supernatural abilities e.g. black dragon's breath?If the item is unattended, yes. if it is attended, only if the attending creature rolls a natural 1 on the save and the item is randomly chosen as the affected one.3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always?Not sure what you mean. If you're asking whether it applies to energy damage, yes it does. I'd say it applies to all damage unless the source explicitly ignores the hardness.4) Don't magic items get better HP than their mundane counterparts?Weapons, armour and shield do; other items do not.
calronmoonflower 03-17-07, 02:46 PM	3) Is hardenss only for physical attacks or does it apply always? You also subtract hardness from any energy damage. Note that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.
Nom 03-17-07, 05:22 PM	You also subtract hardness from any energy damage. Note that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.Common confusion due to poorly worded rule. Rather, sonic and acid damage are not halved (fire, electricity) or quartered (cold) before having their damage applied (and hardness subtracted).
calronmoonflower 03-17-07, 07:49 PM	Common confusion due to poorly worded rule. Rather, sonic and acid damage are not halved (fire, electricity) or quartered (cold) before having their damage applied (and hardness subtracted). I reread the rules for hardness and energy damage and it is indeed poorly worded. I looked it up in the main 3.5 FAQ and you are right. • Hardness applies to acid and sonic attacks. These attacks deal normal damage both to creatures and to objects, and thus would deal normal damage to an animated object (less the effect of the hardness). You would subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever damage a Melf’s acid arrow spell deals to the animated table in your example. It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't.
Nom 03-17-07, 11:58 PM	It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't.Huh? Hardness applies against sonic attacks whether they are spells or not, unless the spell description explicitly states that hardness is ignored.
Scribbler 03-18-07, 01:46 AM	It's a bit confusing that energy powers ignore hardness when you select the sonic energy type, but spells don't. The energy psionic powers give a special ability to each type, and that's part of the ability for sonic. Actually, it has to be noted in the power description since it isn't normal for the energy type (although yes, I do realize that things like that often have reminders in descriptions where it comes up).
spiller 03-18-07, 08:37 AM	If the item is unattended, yes. if it is attended, only if the attending creature rolls a natural 1 on the save and the item is randomly chosen as the affected one. Or if the black dragon specifically targets the magic item, e.g. a magic tower shield, right? Weapons, armour and shield do; other items do not. Where can I find this rule?
Merestil Haye 03-18-07, 09:12 AM	Or if the black dragon specifically targets the magic item, e.g. a magic tower shield, right?Read the Sunder rules.Sunder You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.) (snip) Sundering a Carried or Worn Object You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.If the dragon gets up close and personal it can attempt to sunder the item. Unless it has some additional capability, it can not attempt to Sunder an item with a ranged weapon, spell or special ability (such as, for example, its breath weapon). Where can I find this rule?The rules state that weapons, shields and armour get increased hardness and hit points if they have an enhancement bonus. The rules do not say that for other types of item, therefore those items do not benefit from being magic. it's not a matter of pointing to a rule that says "magic items don't get more hp even though they're magic" - the rules are not written like that. They state general cases and exceptions to those cases. Since there are no rules to give those items bonus hardness and hp, they don't get it. Of course, if you can find a rule that does give magic items increased hardness and hp, then they do get the increases.
spiller 03-18-07, 10:05 AM	The rules state that weapons, shields and armour get increased hardness and hit points if they have an enhancement bonus. The rules do not say that for other types of item, therefore those items do not benefit from being magic. it's not a matter of pointing to a rule that says "magic items don't get more hp even though they're magic" - the rules are not written like that. They state general cases and exceptions to those cases. Since there are no rules to give those items bonus hardness and hp, they don't get it. Of course, if you can find a rule that does give magic items increased hardness and hp, then they do get the increases. OK, I found in the PHB that magic weapon and armor get additional hardness according to their enhancement bonus, but I couldn't find anything about additional HP. So I guess I'm just asking where do I find the rule that says how many extra HP a magic weapon/armor gets?
Merestil Haye 03-18-07, 11:13 AM	Under Smashing an Object.Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.
SillyRobot 03-18-07, 11:19 AM	OK, I found in the PHB that magic weapon and armor get additional hardness according to their enhancement bonus, but I couldn't find anything about additional HP. So I guess I'm just asking where do I find the rule that says how many extra HP a magic weapon/armor gets? DMG page 222. Please apply the errata when reading the passage otherwise we'll start this conversation again.
spiller 03-18-07, 06:56 PM	OK, gotcha! Sometimes I just find it hard to find some specific piece of information in these books :rolleyes: One more question: If a PC takes full cover from a tower shield, and a black dragon uses her acid breath from the covered direction, does the shield take damage instead of the character, or how else should I run this scenario?
calronmoonflower 03-19-07, 12:17 AM	One more question: If a PC takes full cover from a tower shield, and a black dragon uses her acid breath from the covered direction, does the shield take damage instead of the character, or how else should I run this scenario? Full cover blocks the line of effect, but your shield would be toast.
SillyRobot 03-19-07, 08:10 AM	Full cover blocks the line of effect, but your shield would be toast. Except that the tower shield is still an attended item and need not make a save.
spiller 03-19-07, 10:56 AM	Except that the tower shield is still an attended item and need not make a save. So basically a tower shield is the perfect defence against a dragon's breath if the PC is in a 5ft wide corridor just outside the room? Especially if the dragon can't reach to sunder it?
Merestil Haye 03-19-07, 12:05 PM	Your salvation here is that area attacks that impact a barrier can indeed destroy that barrier. There is precedent in such spells as Lightning Bolt, which contains the following text.If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.Since the breath weapon text does not have this, it means that the tower shield will absorb the damage. However, the tower shield, being an attended object, does get a Reflex save for half damage, using its wielder's Reflex save bonus (unless it is a magic item with a higher bonus than its wielder possesses.) After that is resolved, apply hardness, then if there's any damage left the object takes that amount, divided by the factor for the appropriate energy type. A Juvenile breath weapon does 8d4 (average 20 points of damage) with a save DC of 18. A 7th level fighter has a Ref save bonus of something around +3 to +5; thus the chance of success is 35% (or about 1 in 3) assuming a nonmagic shield. The shield takes 15 damage if it fails its save, which is not enough to destroy an intact one, or 5 points if it passes. And remember, acid is the best energy attack to employ against objects; the results for electricity, fire and cold would be even worse.
spiller 03-19-07, 08:08 PM	Merestil, thanks for the tip! That sounds reasonable enough. On another note, how does one repair damaged magic items? AFAIK Craft skill is for mundane items only(?)
olshanski_home 03-19-07, 08:26 PM	There are no really good rules on fixing magic items that are damage. My HOUSE RILES are as follows: 1. Any item is at 100% operational until it loses all HP, at which point it is destroyed. This is how HP work for constructs, and how I'll have it work for items. 2. Any item that has taken any damage can be repaired for 1/2 its market price of the raw materials. The "enchantment" does not have to be paid for, because it sticks with the item. IE: A +1 longsword has about 15 hp. If it is damaged, it costs 1/2 the market price to repair. Thus, the longsword costs about 160 gp to repair. 3. An item without a "base price", like a bag of holding, has repair costs determined on an ad-hoc basis. 4. Any magical item that loses all its HP is destroyed, and any magical enhancements or abilities are completely lost. ---------- Note that these house rules make it fairly easy and inexpensive to repair a magical item. I don't see that it should be difficult. It actually makes the Craft skill reasonably useful. My other house rule is that most effects that are save-or-die for equipment is actually no save but automatic damage. For example, a sword hit by a rust-monster automatically takes 2d6 damage. This means that a non-magical sword is destroyed with a single hit most of the time, while a +1 sword always survives a first hit and often a 2nd hit. This makes combat with rust monsters and black puddings much less random, and assures that those creatures are always a threat (rather than a random save-or-die monster).
calronmoonflower 03-20-07, 02:45 AM	There are no really good rules on fixing magic items that are damage. My HOUSE RILES are as follows: 1. Any item is at 100% operational until it loses all HP, at which point it is destroyed. This is how HP work for constructs, and how I'll have it work for items. 2. Any item that has taken any damage can be repaired for 1/2 its market price of the raw materials. The "enchantment" does not have to be paid for, because it sticks with the item. IE: A +1 longsword has about 15 hp. If it is damaged, it costs 1/2 the market price to repair. Thus, the longsword costs about 160 gp to repair. 3. An item without a "base price", like a bag of holding, has repair costs determined on an ad-hoc basis. 4. Any magical item that loses all its HP is destroyed, and any magical enhancements or abilities are completely lost. As far as I know 1 is RAW. 2 Magic items can be repaired just like normal items 3 All magic item that I know of (except Bage of Devouring) have a GP cost. 4 Normally destroyed magic items can be repaired ate half the price needed to create it.
olshanski_home 03-20-07, 10:39 AM	As far as I know 1 is RAW. 2 Magic items can be repaired just like normal items 3 All magic item that I know of (except Bage of Devouring) have a GP cost. 4 Normally destroyed magic items can be repaired ate half the price needed to create it. Thanks for your feedback, calronmoonflower, but I think you missed what I was getting at for #3. It is my fault because I used the defined term "base price" when what I meant to say was "raw material" or something like that. A longsword+2 is worth 8315 gp and has 25 hp. How much does it cost to repair if it has 5 hp damage? How much does it cost to repair if it has 20 hp damage? If the sword is destroyed by a rust monster, can it be repaired for 4157.5 gp? According to my house rules, the 8000 gp enchantment is built upon the framework of a 315gp masterwork longsword. I rule that any repairs are going to cost 157 gp (half of the masterwork longsword price), whether the sword has taken 5 or 20 hp of damage.
spiller 03-20-07, 03:05 PM	Sounds very resonable, olshanski. Maybe a little too easy/inexpensive for my taste, but I could definitely work on something based on that. I just feel that repairing magic items should require something like a Craft [magic item] feat and more expensive raw materials, but that's just me. :)
SillyRobot 03-20-07, 08:52 PM	Thanks for your feedback, calronmoonflower, but I think you missed what I was getting at for #3. It is my fault because I used the defined term "base price" when what I meant to say was "raw material" or something like that. A longsword+2 is worth 8315 gp and has 25 hp. How much does it cost to repair if it has 5 hp damage? How much does it cost to repair if it has 20 hp damage? If the sword is destroyed by a rust monster, can it be repaired for 4157.5 gp? According to my house rules, the 8000 gp enchantment is built upon the framework of a 315gp masterwork longsword. I rule that any repairs are going to cost 157 gp (half of the masterwork longsword price), whether the sword has taken 5 or 20 hp of damage. And as Calronmoonflower pointed out, it isn't a house-rule it is RAW. DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS <snipped stuff about saving throws> Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. REPAIRING MAGIC ITEMS Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
spiller 03-22-07, 02:26 PM	And as Calronmoonflower pointed out, it isn't a house-rule it is RAW. Actually, he didn't point out directly that part being RAW, but I very much appreciate the clarification! :)