Dimensional Hijinks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dimensional Hijinks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tauaru
09-13-07, 01:56 AM OK, so a Heward's Handy Haversack (HHH) gets hit by a Rod of Cancellation. What Happens?

1) HHH explodes if more than what a backpack is stored.

2) HHH implodes and all items are lost to the Ethereal Plane.

3) Gate to Ethereal Plane is opened as HHH is drawn through with attached Character.

4) Regular size items have a percentage chance equal to Weightx20 to remain in the resulting normal backpack up to the regular Backpack (I always assume 20 pounds as that is the max I can comfortably place in my own).

Please let me know what you would do in this situation as this will happen tomorrow and I am still undecided.

Thanks!
PenderGrass
09-13-07, 03:17 AM Standard answer that follows RAW?

The magic is drained. All items in the pack are lost (since they are all considered to be stored via the magic in the item). Similar to your #4 idea (and as a side note, an adventuring backpack can carry far more than 20 pounds).

This is your safest bet if your players are fairly grounded in sticking to the rules or expect you to follow the RAW.

Regardless, #1 and #3 are a bit extreme no matter what group you are playing with.

#2 doesn't make much sense either, although exciting and cinematic, I picture a rod of cancellation as being more of a sudden "woomf!" and your magic thingie is no longer magical.

Of course, making the "woomf!" a bit more cinematic would be cool, too.

Possibly have it crackle with dissipating energy and then crumble into dust?

:dragon:
****
tauaru
09-13-07, 03:25 AM Ahh...Yes

#1 Should read: All of the items explode out of the backpack if more than what a backpack can hold.

That might be what I do...
PenderGrass
09-13-07, 03:35 AM Ahh...Yes

#1 Should read: All of the items explode out of the backpack if more than what a backpack can hold.

That might be what I do...
Got it.

I still don't see a rod of cancellation causing anything to explode - but, that is just me.

Considering I would play it as all items are lost, I doubt your players will have many complaints.

Good luck.

:dragon:
****
mvincent
09-13-07, 05:31 PM OK, so a Heward's Handy Haversack (HHH) gets hit by a Rod of Cancellation. What Happens?By the rules, an HHH hit by a Rod of Cancellation is effectively destroyed (becoming just a mundane haversack), and all contents are lost (in the astral plane, if it matters).
tauaru
09-13-07, 06:25 PM mvincent, I would love to find that in the rules, do you know what page in what book that is on?
mvincent
09-13-07, 07:52 PM mvincent, I would love to find that in the rules, do you know what page in what book that is on?It's spread about a bit. Here are some of the applicable portions:

From Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack):
"each is like a bag of holding"

From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a):
"It's best to treat a Heward's handy haversack as a bag of holding"

From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):
"Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled."

From Bag of Holding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding):
"If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever."

From Rod of Cancellation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#cancellation):
"its touch drains an item of all magical properties"
"Drained items are only restorable by wish or miracle."
(this seems to indicate destruction)

From the 3.5 FAQ:
"the entry for the bag of
holding strongly suggests that if it is destroyed by any means,
the contents are “lost forever.” Thus, a Mordenkainen’s
disjunction spell that successfully turns a bag of holding into a
normal bag also “destroys” anything held within the bag. (A
dispel magic or similar effect that simply suppressed the bag’s
magic would strand the items temporarily, but they’d be
reachable again as soon as the magic returned.)

(Note: Mordenkainen’s disjunction and Rod of Cancellation are pretty much the same effect)

From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items:
"In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."

Alternately, you might rule that "destroying" a HHH via a rod of cancellation might merely keep the items on the HHH's extradimensional 'demi-plane'. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"Most magic storage items use extradimensional space (such
as a bag of holding). When the magic on such an item is
dispelled or suppressed, access to the item’s interior is closed
off, and you cannot deposit or retrieve anything in the magic
storage item until the suppression ends."

However, even in this case getting the items back will be unlikely. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"An effect that allowed interplanar travel would allow you
to travel from an extradimensional space to another plane (such
as from within a magnificent mansion to the Material Plane).

Theoretically, even the reverse might be true (transport
from the Material Plane into a rope trick, for example),
although this is certainly trickier. An extradimensional space
isn’t actually a “plane,” per se, so any spell that takes you to a
specific plane wouldn’t necessarily succeed. It’s probably
easiest to say that such effects don’t function unless somehow
specifically designed to do so—after all, who really wants to
open up his portable hole to find the angry lich archmage
waiting to ambush him?"
PenderGrass
09-13-07, 08:37 PM You may be able to use all that to support it going down the way I initially suggested, but nothing in there is concrete enough to not be argued by a determined player.

In other words, short of a single official source actually clearly specifying what happens when a rod of cancellation is used on a HHH, you aren't going to satisfy everyone.

But, just a general reading of the HHH and rod will give you all the information to get the same result as the one I initially gave.

:dragon:
****
tauaru
09-13-07, 09:35 PM Thanks for the info all, I am about to go destroy some stuff.

Mvincent, thank you for uncovering all of those sources, I thought everything would be gone but could not figure out why in the rules that was true.

Prendergass, your input was equally invaluable.

I think it will go:

The rod makes contact with your Haversack. You suddenly feel the 5 pounds dissipate as the straps over your shoulders crumble to dust. Behind you the contents of the HHH hover in the air for a moment, distressingly out of reach. Then they begin to swirl in a conglomerate that your eyes fail to grasp. The swirl grows smaller as you watch the items disappear right in front of through an inter dimensional portal (Knowledge Arcana DC15 or Knowledge Planes DC 10 to know where they go) which closes as the last of your items disappear.

Thanks again!
PenderGrass
09-14-07, 12:23 AM The rod makes contact with your Haversack. You suddenly feel the 5 pounds dissipate as the straps over your shoulders crumble to dust. Behind you the contents of the HHH hover in the air for a moment, distressingly out of reach. Then they begin to swirl in a conglomerate that your eyes fail to grasp. The swirl grows smaller as you watch the items disappear right in front of through an inter dimensional portal (Knowledge Arcana DC15 or Knowledge Planes DC 10 to know where they go) which closes as the last of your items disappear.
Nice cinematic touch.

:dragon:
****

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tauaru 09-13-07, 01:56 AM	OK, so a Heward's Handy Haversack (HHH) gets hit by a Rod of Cancellation. What Happens? 1) HHH explodes if more than what a backpack is stored. 2) HHH implodes and all items are lost to the Ethereal Plane. 3) Gate to Ethereal Plane is opened as HHH is drawn through with attached Character. 4) Regular size items have a percentage chance equal to Weightx20 to remain in the resulting normal backpack up to the regular Backpack (I always assume 20 pounds as that is the max I can comfortably place in my own). Please let me know what you would do in this situation as this will happen tomorrow and I am still undecided. Thanks!
PenderGrass 09-13-07, 03:17 AM	Standard answer that follows RAW? The magic is drained. All items in the pack are lost (since they are all considered to be stored via the magic in the item). Similar to your #4 idea (and as a side note, an adventuring backpack can carry far more than 20 pounds). This is your safest bet if your players are fairly grounded in sticking to the rules or expect you to follow the RAW. Regardless, #1 and #3 are a bit extreme no matter what group you are playing with. #2 doesn't make much sense either, although exciting and cinematic, I picture a rod of cancellation as being more of a sudden "woomf!" and your magic thingie is no longer magical. Of course, making the "woomf!" a bit more cinematic would be cool, too. Possibly have it crackle with dissipating energy and then crumble into dust? :dragon: ****
tauaru 09-13-07, 03:25 AM	Ahh...Yes #1 Should read: All of the items explode out of the backpack if more than what a backpack can hold. That might be what I do...
PenderGrass 09-13-07, 03:35 AM	Ahh...Yes #1 Should read: All of the items explode out of the backpack if more than what a backpack can hold. That might be what I do... Got it. I still don't see a rod of cancellation causing anything to explode - but, that is just me. Considering I would play it as all items are lost, I doubt your players will have many complaints. Good luck. :dragon: ****
mvincent 09-13-07, 05:31 PM	OK, so a Heward's Handy Haversack (HHH) gets hit by a Rod of Cancellation. What Happens?By the rules, an HHH hit by a Rod of Cancellation is effectively destroyed (becoming just a mundane haversack), and all contents are lost (in the astral plane, if it matters).
tauaru 09-13-07, 06:25 PM	mvincent, I would love to find that in the rules, do you know what page in what book that is on?
mvincent 09-13-07, 07:52 PM	mvincent, I would love to find that in the rules, do you know what page in what book that is on?It's spread about a bit. Here are some of the applicable portions: From Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack): "each is like a bag of holding" From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a): "It's best to treat a Heward's handy haversack as a bag of holding" From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a): "Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled." From Bag of Holding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding): "If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever." From Rod of Cancellation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#cancellation): "its touch drains an item of all magical properties" "Drained items are only restorable by wish or miracle." (this seems to indicate destruction) From the 3.5 FAQ: "the entry for the bag of holding strongly suggests that if it is destroyed by any means, the contents are “lost forever.” Thus, a Mordenkainen’s disjunction spell that successfully turns a bag of holding into a normal bag also “destroys” anything held within the bag. (A dispel magic or similar effect that simply suppressed the bag’s magic would strand the items temporarily, but they’d be reachable again as soon as the magic returned.) (Note: Mordenkainen’s disjunction and Rod of Cancellation are pretty much the same effect) From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items: "In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane." Alternately, you might rule that "destroying" a HHH via a rod of cancellation might merely keep the items on the HHH's extradimensional 'demi-plane'. From the 3.5 FAQ: "Most magic storage items use extradimensional space (such as a bag of holding). When the magic on such an item is dispelled or suppressed, access to the item’s interior is closed off, and you cannot deposit or retrieve anything in the magic storage item until the suppression ends." However, even in this case getting the items back will be unlikely. From the 3.5 FAQ: "An effect that allowed interplanar travel would allow you to travel from an extradimensional space to another plane (such as from within a magnificent mansion to the Material Plane). Theoretically, even the reverse might be true (transport from the Material Plane into a rope trick, for example), although this is certainly trickier. An extradimensional space isn’t actually a “plane,” per se, so any spell that takes you to a specific plane wouldn’t necessarily succeed. It’s probably easiest to say that such effects don’t function unless somehow specifically designed to do so—after all, who really wants to open up his portable hole to find the angry lich archmage waiting to ambush him?"
PenderGrass 09-13-07, 08:37 PM	You may be able to use all that to support it going down the way I initially suggested, but nothing in there is concrete enough to not be argued by a determined player. In other words, short of a single official source actually clearly specifying what happens when a rod of cancellation is used on a HHH, you aren't going to satisfy everyone. But, just a general reading of the HHH and rod will give you all the information to get the same result as the one I initially gave. :dragon: ****
tauaru 09-13-07, 09:35 PM	Thanks for the info all, I am about to go destroy some stuff. Mvincent, thank you for uncovering all of those sources, I thought everything would be gone but could not figure out why in the rules that was true. Prendergass, your input was equally invaluable. I think it will go: The rod makes contact with your Haversack. You suddenly feel the 5 pounds dissipate as the straps over your shoulders crumble to dust. Behind you the contents of the HHH hover in the air for a moment, distressingly out of reach. Then they begin to swirl in a conglomerate that your eyes fail to grasp. The swirl grows smaller as you watch the items disappear right in front of through an inter dimensional portal (Knowledge Arcana DC15 or Knowledge Planes DC 10 to know where they go) which closes as the last of your items disappear. Thanks again!
PenderGrass 09-14-07, 12:23 AM	The rod makes contact with your Haversack. You suddenly feel the 5 pounds dissipate as the straps over your shoulders crumble to dust. Behind you the contents of the HHH hover in the air for a moment, distressingly out of reach. Then they begin to swirl in a conglomerate that your eyes fail to grasp. The swirl grows smaller as you watch the items disappear right in front of through an inter dimensional portal (Knowledge Arcana DC15 or Knowledge Planes DC 10 to know where they go) which closes as the last of your items disappear. Nice cinematic touch. :dragon: ****