Dispel vs Invisability [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dispel vs Invisability [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Helpmeplease
11-29-07, 02:26 PM Hello all.
Simple question.
Does targeted option of dispel magic when aimed at someone. friend or foe, cause the invis. to drop.

Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area

I ruled that it dropped. was I correct?

Thanks.
P.S.
would any of the other options of DM not cause invis to drop. I believe I know the answer, just wanted more opinons.
PenderGrass
11-29-07, 03:16 PM I ruled that it dropped. was I correct?
Asking if you were correct is a matter of context and circumstance.

You mention dispel magic cast on a friend as the same as on a foe - and it is not. Casting spells on willing, friendly targets is rarely an attack.

Casting any spell I can think of on a foe (i.e., someone actively opposing the spell) should be considered an attack - there may be circumstances that don't work this way and the DM should be willing to make those calls when needed.

:dragon:
*****
rimble
11-29-07, 03:36 PM You needed to quote more of the spell description:

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

Technically it can get a little messy, though in practice it usually doesn't. By RAW, if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible. If he had previously charmed you and you considered him an ally, then you'd stay invisible!

Dispel Magic at an ally would leave you invisible IF you really view him as your ally. If you're casting Dispel Magic to get some horrible spell off your friend, you'll stay invisible. If you're suddenly turning on your ally or purposefully setting him up to fail by using Dispel Magic on him (you now view him as a foe), then you'd become visible.

Magic is a fickle mistress...
mvincent
11-29-07, 05:18 PM By RAW, if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible.To examine this: if he didn't want to be healed (maybe because he doesn't want to be interrogated), then that is pretty similar to an attack anyway.

However, if the enemy did want to healed, then he may not even consider you an enemy (for the purposes of that spell at least). boctaoe.
rimble
11-29-07, 06:18 PM To examine this: if he didn't want to be healed (maybe because he doesn't want to be interrogated), then that is pretty similar to an attack anyway.

However, if the enemy did want to healed, then he may not even consider you an enemy (for the purposes of that spell at least). boctaoe.

Well, it doesn't say the targets attitude has anything to do with it. It's all about the invisible persons perceptions and intentions.

I'm glad this has never come up at our table, hehe...
mvincent
11-29-07, 06:41 PM Well, it doesn't say the targets attitude has anything to do with it. It's all about the invisible persons perceptions and intentions.Good point. My bad. So, if you target an ally with a healing spell (not realizing that he was undead) and injure him, you still wouldn't break your invisibility. Similarly, you could stay invisible even while launching fireballs (at least, until you launch one near the invisible foe you were trying to find).

And your earlier statement of "if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible" is entirely correct (assuming you view them as an enemy when you are trying to heal them).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Helpmeplease 11-29-07, 02:26 PM	Hello all. Simple question. Does targeted option of dispel magic when aimed at someone. friend or foe, cause the invis. to drop. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area I ruled that it dropped. was I correct? Thanks. P.S. would any of the other options of DM not cause invis to drop. I believe I know the answer, just wanted more opinons.
PenderGrass 11-29-07, 03:16 PM	I ruled that it dropped. was I correct? Asking if you were correct is a matter of context and circumstance. You mention dispel magic cast on a friend as the same as on a foe - and it is not. Casting spells on willing, friendly targets is rarely an attack. Casting any spell I can think of on a foe (i.e., someone actively opposing the spell) should be considered an attack - there may be circumstances that don't work this way and the DM should be willing to make those calls when needed. :dragon: *****
rimble 11-29-07, 03:36 PM	You needed to quote more of the spell description: Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area. Technically it can get a little messy, though in practice it usually doesn't. By RAW, if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible. If he had previously charmed you and you considered him an ally, then you'd stay invisible! Dispel Magic at an ally would leave you invisible IF you really view him as your ally. If you're casting Dispel Magic to get some horrible spell off your friend, you'll stay invisible. If you're suddenly turning on your ally or purposefully setting him up to fail by using Dispel Magic on him (you now view him as a foe), then you'd become visible. Magic is a fickle mistress...
mvincent 11-29-07, 05:18 PM	By RAW, if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible.To examine this: if he didn't want to be healed (maybe because he doesn't want to be interrogated), then that is pretty similar to an attack anyway. However, if the enemy did want to healed, then he may not even consider you an enemy (for the purposes of that spell at least). boctaoe.
rimble 11-29-07, 06:18 PM	To examine this: if he didn't want to be healed (maybe because he doesn't want to be interrogated), then that is pretty similar to an attack anyway. However, if the enemy did want to healed, then he may not even consider you an enemy (for the purposes of that spell at least). boctaoe. Well, it doesn't say the targets attitude has anything to do with it. It's all about the invisible persons perceptions and intentions. I'm glad this has never come up at our table, hehe...
mvincent 11-29-07, 06:41 PM	Well, it doesn't say the targets attitude has anything to do with it. It's all about the invisible persons perceptions and intentions.Good point. My bad. So, if you target an ally with a healing spell (not realizing that he was undead) and injure him, you still wouldn't break your invisibility. Similarly, you could stay invisible even while launching fireballs (at least, until you launch one near the invisible foe you were trying to find). And your earlier statement of "if for some reason you wanted to go heal an enemy (really heal him, not cast a healing spell on an undead enemy or otherwise cause him harm through your heal) then you would become visible" is entirely correct (assuming you view them as an enemy when you are trying to heal them).