Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kobold Paladin 06-22-07, 06:23 PM	I looked for a post on the subject and couldn't find it... If a character fails their save from a poisoned attack and takes damage and is hit by another the next round can it affect them again?
Marcus Majarra 06-22-07, 06:44 PM	Yes, ability damage stacks, regardless of the source.
Merestil Haye 06-22-07, 06:44 PM	I looked for a post on the subject and couldn't find it... If a character fails their save from a poisoned attack and takes damage and is hit by another the next round can it affect them again?I wouldn't use the word "stack" in this context. Damage is damage. All damage is cumulative. Thus if the victim failed the poison save twice he takes both sets of damage. And both sets of secodary damage, six seconds apart, a minute later (assuming he fails those saves too, and is still functioning).
maharai23 06-22-07, 07:13 PM	I looked for a post on the subject and couldn't find it... If a character fails their save from a poisoned attack and takes damage and is hit by another the next round can it affect them again? Damage always stacks. After all, if someone gets hit by a sword, and gets hit my the same sword again next round, does the damage stack? Absolutely. Stacking rules are for bonuses, and penalties. There's a bit of misuse of the word in the DmG describing the Keen ability, but it's only designed for bonuses and penalties. Sometimes used for benefits. But never damage or drain of any kind.
KedynCrow 06-22-07, 07:16 PM	Damage of any form must accrue by necessity. Otherwise there'd be no reason to keep dodging those swordstrokes. After the first one hit, there'd be no reason to try and avoid the second :) Yeah, poison damage builds.
Karui_Kage 06-22-07, 07:58 PM	This isn't always true. Ability damage from the same spell doesn't stack. For example, when using Ray of Enfeeblement multiple times, only the highest strength damage done applies.
Inigo Carmine 06-22-07, 08:07 PM	This isn't always true. Ability damage from the same spell doesn't stack. For example, when using Ray of Enfeeblement multiple times, only the highest strength damage done applies. Actually, yes, it is always true. Ability damage from the same spell will stack, just as damage from the same sword will stack. Ray of Enfeeblement does not stack, because Ray of Enfeeblement does not do ability damage, it gives a penalty. Penalties from the same source do not stack.
Salla 06-22-07, 08:49 PM	Actually, yes, it is always true. Ability damage from the same spell will stack, just as damage from the same sword will stack. Ray of Enfeeblement does not stack, because Ray of Enfeeblement does not do ability damage, it gives a penalty. Penalties from the same source do not stack. Correct. Ray of Stupidity (INT damage) accumulates. Ray of Enfeeblement (STR penalty) does not.
Karui_Kage 06-23-07, 01:22 AM	Correct. Ray of Stupidity (INT damage) accumulates. Ray of Enfeeblement (STR penalty) does not. My mistake. :)
Kobold Paladin 06-23-07, 01:32 PM	So basicly dispite a Forest Troll (MMIII) only being CR 4 one can theoretically kill a character outright after 2 or 3 attacks if they faill all of their saves? I am looking for monsters that will make the effective party of 8 character more challenged but not kill them on an individual level..
Empiro 06-23-07, 02:40 PM	When DMing for such large groups (I don't recommend having such a large group though), the standard strategy is to use more monsters instead of a higher CR monster. As you ramp in CR, monsters get powerful enough such that one round is all they need to kill a character.
Kobold Paladin 06-23-07, 04:46 PM	The Groups ECL is 4.5 so 2 or 3 the Forset Trolls is where it should be, but they could still kill some of my party members in short order, Con (the damage the forest troll poison does) is one of the lowest stats in the party on average and only 3 of them have good fort saves...
MarkB 06-23-07, 07:59 PM	The Groups ECL is 4.5 so 2 or 3 the Forset Trolls is where it should be, but they could still kill some of my party members in short order, Con (the damage the forest troll poison does) is one of the lowest stats in the party on average and only 3 of them have good fort saves... How did that come about, if you don't mind me asking? CON is the one stat I practically never see players dumping, given how important it is to survival, and over 50% of the standard base classes have good Fort save progression. In this case, you have a party with a specific weakness, so a creature which exploits that weakness will, naturally, be more of a threat to that specific party. Accordingly, you should consider it higher in CR for purposes of encounter-balancing. I would not recommend considering it higher in CR for purposes of experience awards. Players need to learn to either correct or compensate for their party's weaknesses, so those weaknesses should not be rewarded.
Empiro 06-23-07, 08:40 PM	I can see players dumping con if they're inexperienced. Poison is generally not that dangerous if the party is prepared. Whenever I play a cleric (which is quite often), I always carry around a scroll or two of delay poison. Players should also have a vial of anti-toxin just to be prepared.