Does slippery terrain = precarious surface? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does slippery terrain = precarious surface? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lootus
04-10-08, 09:11 PM In the Grease spell, it is; in the DMG, it isn't. Which is correct?

An ice sheet (very slippery terrain), as listed in the DMG, is a form of difficult terrain that costs X2 movement, increases Balance and Tumble DCs by +5, and requires a DC 10 Balance check to run or charge across it.

On the other hand, the surfaces created by the spells Grease and Ice Slick (from Frostburn) stongly suggest that the area created is to be treated as a precarious surface (and effectively treated like a 7-12 inch wide narrow surface).

So do you treat movement across a very slippery surface as difficult terrain, or as a precarious surface?

Also, regarding standing up from prone on a very slippery surface - does it require any skill checks? I can't find anything that says such a roll is required for this action. (nevermind - it doesn't, per FAQ)

And how would you handle a standing character or creature that wants to jump out of such an area?
Lootus
04-24-08, 09:52 AM Nobody's ever come across this before? Anyways, it seems like slippery should be treated as precarious instead of like an Ice Sheet from the DMG, so that's how I'm ruling it. For the spells, I'm ignoring the +5 Balance modifier for an Ice Sheet in the DMG due to the spell descriptions (since I see no reason to make the spells more powerful).
tos_shai_hulud
04-24-08, 10:33 AM Consider a dwarf wearing full plate. He steps onto an ice sheet, and his armor indents the surface, providing him with a minute amount of friction. On the other hand, when the wizard casts grease, his is standing on an area that is slippery because of magic. The two don't seem to share a lot of commonalities aside from the fact that they are both slippery. If you are looking for a physics perspective, I doubt that Newton had considered magic when creating his three laws of motion. I assume that if the DMG lists something a certain way, it was either intended or an oversight. If you are looking for a debate on which version is correct, I would argue that you are the DM, so whatever you choose is correct. I, personally, am not going to worry about it much. I figure, Grease is a first level spell, and whatever it does, that is how it was balanced for a first level character. Skip Williams and Monte Cook seem to be better at balancing the rules than I am, anyway.

As far as jumping, the rules creators did not indicate many things they felt left to common sense. For instance, the difference between jumping and running is minimal. Since the Grease spell states that a DC 10 Balance check is required for simply walking at half speed, then a DC 15 check is required to move at full speed. Since by Jumping, you are exerting at least as much force as walking at full speed, so I would conclude that a DC 15 balance check would be required.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lootus 04-10-08, 09:11 PM	In the Grease spell, it is; in the DMG, it isn't. Which is correct? An ice sheet (very slippery terrain), as listed in the DMG, is a form of difficult terrain that costs X2 movement, increases Balance and Tumble DCs by +5, and requires a DC 10 Balance check to run or charge across it. On the other hand, the surfaces created by the spells Grease and Ice Slick (from Frostburn) stongly suggest that the area created is to be treated as a precarious surface (and effectively treated like a 7-12 inch wide narrow surface). So do you treat movement across a very slippery surface as difficult terrain, or as a precarious surface? Also, regarding standing up from prone on a very slippery surface - does it require any skill checks? I can't find anything that says such a roll is required for this action. (nevermind - it doesn't, per FAQ) And how would you handle a standing character or creature that wants to jump out of such an area?
Lootus 04-24-08, 09:52 AM	Nobody's ever come across this before? Anyways, it seems like slippery should be treated as precarious instead of like an Ice Sheet from the DMG, so that's how I'm ruling it. For the spells, I'm ignoring the +5 Balance modifier for an Ice Sheet in the DMG due to the spell descriptions (since I see no reason to make the spells more powerful).
tos_shai_hulud 04-24-08, 10:33 AM	Consider a dwarf wearing full plate. He steps onto an ice sheet, and his armor indents the surface, providing him with a minute amount of friction. On the other hand, when the wizard casts grease, his is standing on an area that is slippery because of magic. The two don't seem to share a lot of commonalities aside from the fact that they are both slippery. If you are looking for a physics perspective, I doubt that Newton had considered magic when creating his three laws of motion. I assume that if the DMG lists something a certain way, it was either intended or an oversight. If you are looking for a debate on which version is correct, I would argue that you are the DM, so whatever you choose is correct. I, personally, am not going to worry about it much. I figure, Grease is a first level spell, and whatever it does, that is how it was balanced for a first level character. Skip Williams and Monte Cook seem to be better at balancing the rules than I am, anyway. As far as jumping, the rules creators did not indicate many things they felt left to common sense. For instance, the difference between jumping and running is minimal. Since the Grease spell states that a DC 10 Balance check is required for simply walking at half speed, then a DC 15 check is required to move at full speed. Since by Jumping, you are exerting at least as much force as walking at full speed, so I would conclude that a DC 15 balance check would be required.