Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-13-07, 06:39 AM	"On a successful grapple check, the dolgaunt deals one point of Constitution damage in addition to normal damage. If injured, it also heals 2 points of damage. " Does this mean that the Dolgaunt must grapple, even that it must establish a pin? Or does it mean that you make a grapple check whenever the dolgaunt hits with a tentacle attack (via the improved grapple feat). it seems that the second is the case, as the con damage is done "in addition to normal damage". The touch attack to start a grapple does not normally do damage. Can they do it more than once per round? Do Dolgaunt Monks do it while flurrying? What about making a trip attack as an AAO? Does that also mean the dolgaunt makes the tentacle vitality drain? Or is it that the AAO may be a melee attack, a touch attack to start a grapple, or a trip attack? Fun times, anyway, if the characters try to get past the monks with 10' con-draining tentacles.
Marcus Majarra 12-13-07, 11:14 AM	The Con damage applies only when the dolgaunt is grappling. Whenever it would succeed in damaging its opponent in a grapple (see the Damage Your Opponent option), it also deals Con damage and heals 2 points of hit point damage. They can do this more than once per round, assuming its BAB is sufficiently high to allow multiple iterative attacks. Flurry, however, doesn't work for grappling. Tripping doesn't incur any vitality drain.
Phrennzy 12-13-07, 04:31 PM	The Con damage applies only when the dolgaunt is grappling. Whenever it would succeed in damaging its opponent in a grapple (see the Damage Your Opponent option), it also deals Con damage and heals 2 points of hit point damage. They can do this more than once per round, assuming its BAB is sufficiently high to allow multiple iterative attacks. Flurry, however, doesn't work for grappling. Tripping doesn't incur any vitality drain. Agree.
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-13-07, 07:50 PM	Thanks. I do have another question: the grapple steps are: AAO - skipped because the dolgaunt has imporved grapple touch attack - to grab grapple check - does unarmed damage (lethal tentacle damage for a dolgaunt monk). this is where the con drain happens. step 4 is interesting. To maintain the grapple, the grappler moves into the opponents square, taking AAOs from the great-cleaving half ogre with 10' reach. can the grappler elect not to take this step? Yes, it seems so - the SRD had rules for not being able to move into the square. Here's the question: if the grappler elects not to take step 4, not to maintain the grapple, do they retain their dex bonus to AC? can they take their move action as normal?
weasel0 12-14-07, 12:49 AM	yes, and yes. They only take the penalties while in the grapple, so if they don't step in to maintain it(baring size/room issues), they can continue on with whatever actions are left to them for the round. The grapple happens in place of one attack. I would also say, that the phrase "On a successful grapple check, the dolgaunt deals one point of Constitution damage in addition to normal damage. If injured, it also heals 2 points of damage." does indeed mean on any. Including the initial hit. The Imp. Grapple only skips the AoO and gives a +4 to the checks. Now if your beastie had Imp. Grab, that'll activate a free grapple attempt, no AoO, on any specific successful melee attack and then the fun truely starts. Tentacle attack-> hit -> damage -> grapple check-> succeed-> -2 Con & more damage -> release -> take additional attacks(if availible- another tentacle attack :D )
Marcus Majarra 12-14-07, 03:54 AM	Tentacle attack-> hit -> damage -> grapple check-> succeed-> -2 Con & more damage -> release -> take additional attacks You've got things confused. Dolgaunts have the Improved Grapple feat, not the Improved Grab ability. When trying to grapple, they must make a melee touch attack and then succeed to an opposed grapple check to initiative the grapple and damage.
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-14-07, 08:08 PM	You've got things confused. Dolgaunts have the Improved Grapple feat, not the Improved Grab ability. Yes, yes - he was being hypothetical. And I had not registered that there were those two things with slightly different names, so it's all good. This explains toi me the difference between the dolgaunt melee rules and the octopus melee rules. Now, if some mind-flayer devotee of the Dragon Below started fooling around with grafting dolgaunt con-suckers onto a giant octopu's tentacles ... that would be a monster worth writing home about!
weasel0 12-14-07, 11:25 PM	Now if your beastie had... Thank you pmurray.