Dragging rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragging rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordPwntar
02-12-08, 10:48 PM I might be missing something obvious here, but I can't find any rules for dragging in combat. I've got some salamanders that I want to try and drag some PCs kicking and screaming into a pit. (Or at least try to.) My gut says that I should have them grapple then make opposed strength check to see whether the salamanders can drag the PCs at 1/2 or maybe 1/4 speed. Does this sound right, or does somebody know of a good rule to use here?
Kouk
02-12-08, 11:07 PM In the Grapple rules, there is a way to move the entire grapple. This would allow a creature to drag another "kicking and screaming".

On the other hand, you could just knock out the creature or tie it up or paralyze it, and use the normal carrying rules.

Also, you might "push" them kicking and screaming with a Bull Rush.
Rood_Inverse
02-13-08, 01:02 AM Tangential question: What kind of damage would being dragged by a horse do? On a per round basis, that is.

It can't be very fast, I'd imagine. That would spoil the hero being able to pull himself up the rope onto the horse's back...
Kouk
02-13-08, 01:48 AM Tangential question: What kind of damage would being dragged by a horse do? On a per round basis, that is.

It can't be very fast, I'd imagine. That would spoil the hero being able to pull himself up the rope onto the horse's back...

How fast is it going? There isn't really a rule on this (as far as I know) but I would probably go with 1d6 if the horse is moving at least up to its Move Speed, and 2d6 if it is making a double move.

Not sure about a full on Run though.
FriendoftheDork
02-13-08, 03:31 PM As for the dragging behind horse, i wouldn't go for more than 1d6 per round as falling from a horse in full run isn't more than 1d6 damage (which can be negated!
Legdiwena
02-13-08, 03:38 PM I would say it's non-lethal (unless you're hitting large obstructions at speed).
FriendoftheDork
02-13-08, 03:57 PM I would say it's non-lethal (unless you're hitting large obstructions at speed).

Considering it was used as a form of execution, I think not.
Legdiwena
02-13-08, 04:11 PM The only execution involving horses I know of would being hung and being drawn & quartered which is vastly different.
FriendoftheDork
02-14-08, 04:05 AM The only execution involving horses I know of would being hung and being drawn & quartered which is vastly different.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was a form of "unofficial" execution/torture by horsemen, and yeah not the same as being drawn and quartered (which is much quicker and messier). The point anyway as being dragged behind something moving fast can be quite deadly. It was easy finding articles regarding people being murdered by dragging behind cars, but I even found one where a horse was the "culprit"
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C0CE2D91230EE32A25752C0A9619C946597 D6CF&oref=slogin

That's why I think dragging behind a horse should be lethal damage, unless you're drawn over a rubber foam mat or something silly. Perhaps you base the damage off speed and terrain.
Evil DM Mk3
02-14-08, 06:38 AM Plenty of people have died because they fell out of the saddle and their foot got caught in the stirrup. The reason riding boots are the way they are is to help prevent this, thye lack tred and are easy to slip out of (and will often come of on their own) whilst dragged. If you get dragged along this way your skin, musscel and bane has a nasty tendnacy to be abrased from you by the firiction.

Not a recognised form of execution to my knowlage but it would be avery good one (or of course, if onecna relliably stop the hourse, a reasonably effective torture).

As far as I am aware the only way a hourse would ben involved in hanging, drawing and quatering would be to transport the victim as it invloves being hung on a short drop till almost dead, being disemboweled and then cut up.

But the real issue here is that a man being dragged by a hourse in this way is not grappling it. He is effectively being carried, a foot in a stirrup is NOT a grapple.

I say d6 damage a round, no save.
FriendoftheDork
02-14-08, 08:07 AM As far as I known being drawn and quartered involves cutting up the stomach, tying internal organs to rope, and then pulling them out of the still conscious victim.

A horse could be used to pull it out faster, otherwise the executioner would do it himself.
Evil DM Mk3
02-14-08, 09:18 AM As far as I known being drawn and quartered involves cutting up the stomach, tying internal organs to rope, and then pulling them out of the still conscious victim.

That is right, on Guy Faulks they drew it out with a BIIIIIIIG iron hook. A horse would indeed be faster but that is a bad thing, slower is painful. Well in Guy's case it was a waste of time, when they where going to almost hang him to death (VERY VERY PAINFUL) he managed to jump off the ladder and break his neck.:)

You then cut them up int quarters and nail the four quarters in significant places over the nation.
Legdiwena
02-14-08, 11:23 AM Actually, drawn and quartered refers to tying each extremity to a different horse and spooking them all at once.

By hanging, I meant where they have rope hung over branch but not tied off to it. Then have the horse run and snap neck or strangle, depending on how the noose was set.
Evil DM Mk3
02-14-08, 11:32 AM Actually, drawn and quartered refers to tying each extremity to a different horse and spooking them all at once.

By hanging, I meant where they have rope hung over branch but not tied off to it. Then have the horse run and snap neck or strangle, depending on how the noose was set.
No, that would to be torn apart by wild horses, an almost certainly fictional execution method as you risk injuring several horses, and horses are highly valuable. This is hung drawn and quartered. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered)
Legdiwena
02-14-08, 11:52 AM Scroll down to the French Quartering in the wiki you posted.
Evil DM Mk3
02-14-08, 11:56 AM Scroll down to the French Quartering in the wiki you posted.

HOW DID I NOT SEE THAT?

Damn you Horrible Histories, you failed again! (mind you the French quartering thing is, I think, the third big mistake I have ever noticed.) *looks round and charges to the moral high ground* well I was right about HDQ anyway!:D
Legdiwena
02-14-08, 12:03 PM Well, I was referring to HDQ as two seperate things. The H and the DQ :schemes:
FriendoftheDork
02-14-08, 03:45 PM No, that would to be torn apart by wild horses, an almost certainly fictional execution method as you risk injuring several horses, and horses are highly valuable. This is hung drawn and quartered. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered)

AH, legdiwena brought me to it. It doesen't change the fact that being drawn after a horse at high speed is very dangerous and will likely result in the death of the victim... unless he's a level 10 fighter with 90 HPs... :D
Evil DM Mk3
02-14-08, 03:51 PM level 10 fighter with 90 HPs... :D

Well at my estimate of d6 per round, that is about 25-26 rounds. Two mins, 30 - two mins 36...

Still pretty deadly.
Fitz10019
02-15-08, 11:44 AM I've got some salamanders that I want to try and drag some PCs kicking and screaming into a pit. (Or at least try to.)

Are the salamanders going into the pit with the PCs? Or, are they dragging the PCs to the pit, then chucking the PCs into it, but staying outside themselves?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordPwntar 02-12-08, 10:48 PM	I might be missing something obvious here, but I can't find any rules for dragging in combat. I've got some salamanders that I want to try and drag some PCs kicking and screaming into a pit. (Or at least try to.) My gut says that I should have them grapple then make opposed strength check to see whether the salamanders can drag the PCs at 1/2 or maybe 1/4 speed. Does this sound right, or does somebody know of a good rule to use here?
Kouk 02-12-08, 11:07 PM	In the Grapple rules, there is a way to move the entire grapple. This would allow a creature to drag another "kicking and screaming". On the other hand, you could just knock out the creature or tie it up or paralyze it, and use the normal carrying rules. Also, you might "push" them kicking and screaming with a Bull Rush.
Rood_Inverse 02-13-08, 01:02 AM	Tangential question: What kind of damage would being dragged by a horse do? On a per round basis, that is. It can't be very fast, I'd imagine. That would spoil the hero being able to pull himself up the rope onto the horse's back...
Kouk 02-13-08, 01:48 AM	Tangential question: What kind of damage would being dragged by a horse do? On a per round basis, that is. It can't be very fast, I'd imagine. That would spoil the hero being able to pull himself up the rope onto the horse's back... How fast is it going? There isn't really a rule on this (as far as I know) but I would probably go with 1d6 if the horse is moving at least up to its Move Speed, and 2d6 if it is making a double move. Not sure about a full on Run though.
FriendoftheDork 02-13-08, 03:31 PM	As for the dragging behind horse, i wouldn't go for more than 1d6 per round as falling from a horse in full run isn't more than 1d6 damage (which can be negated!
Legdiwena 02-13-08, 03:38 PM	I would say it's non-lethal (unless you're hitting large obstructions at speed).
FriendoftheDork 02-13-08, 03:57 PM	I would say it's non-lethal (unless you're hitting large obstructions at speed). Considering it was used as a form of execution, I think not.
Legdiwena 02-13-08, 04:11 PM	The only execution involving horses I know of would being hung and being drawn & quartered which is vastly different.
FriendoftheDork 02-14-08, 04:05 AM	The only execution involving horses I know of would being hung and being drawn & quartered which is vastly different. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was a form of "unofficial" execution/torture by horsemen, and yeah not the same as being drawn and quartered (which is much quicker and messier). The point anyway as being dragged behind something moving fast can be quite deadly. It was easy finding articles regarding people being murdered by dragging behind cars, but I even found one where a horse was the "culprit" http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C0CE2D91230EE32A25752C0A9619C946597 D6CF&oref=slogin That's why I think dragging behind a horse should be lethal damage, unless you're drawn over a rubber foam mat or something silly. Perhaps you base the damage off speed and terrain.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 06:38 AM	Plenty of people have died because they fell out of the saddle and their foot got caught in the stirrup. The reason riding boots are the way they are is to help prevent this, thye lack tred and are easy to slip out of (and will often come of on their own) whilst dragged. If you get dragged along this way your skin, musscel and bane has a nasty tendnacy to be abrased from you by the firiction. Not a recognised form of execution to my knowlage but it would be avery good one (or of course, if onecna relliably stop the hourse, a reasonably effective torture). As far as I am aware the only way a hourse would ben involved in hanging, drawing and quatering would be to transport the victim as it invloves being hung on a short drop till almost dead, being disemboweled and then cut up. But the real issue here is that a man being dragged by a hourse in this way is not grappling it. He is effectively being carried, a foot in a stirrup is NOT a grapple. I say d6 damage a round, no save.
FriendoftheDork 02-14-08, 08:07 AM	As far as I known being drawn and quartered involves cutting up the stomach, tying internal organs to rope, and then pulling them out of the still conscious victim. A horse could be used to pull it out faster, otherwise the executioner would do it himself.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 09:18 AM	As far as I known being drawn and quartered involves cutting up the stomach, tying internal organs to rope, and then pulling them out of the still conscious victim. That is right, on Guy Faulks they drew it out with a BIIIIIIIG iron hook. A horse would indeed be faster but that is a bad thing, slower is painful. Well in Guy's case it was a waste of time, when they where going to almost hang him to death (VERY VERY PAINFUL) he managed to jump off the ladder and break his neck.:) You then cut them up int quarters and nail the four quarters in significant places over the nation.
Legdiwena 02-14-08, 11:23 AM	Actually, drawn and quartered refers to tying each extremity to a different horse and spooking them all at once. By hanging, I meant where they have rope hung over branch but not tied off to it. Then have the horse run and snap neck or strangle, depending on how the noose was set.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 11:32 AM	Actually, drawn and quartered refers to tying each extremity to a different horse and spooking them all at once. By hanging, I meant where they have rope hung over branch but not tied off to it. Then have the horse run and snap neck or strangle, depending on how the noose was set. No, that would to be torn apart by wild horses, an almost certainly fictional execution method as you risk injuring several horses, and horses are highly valuable. This is hung drawn and quartered. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered)
Legdiwena 02-14-08, 11:52 AM	Scroll down to the French Quartering in the wiki you posted.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 11:56 AM	Scroll down to the French Quartering in the wiki you posted. HOW DID I NOT SEE THAT? Damn you Horrible Histories, you failed again! (mind you the French quartering thing is, I think, the third big mistake I have ever noticed.) looks round and charges to the moral high ground well I was right about HDQ anyway!:D
Legdiwena 02-14-08, 12:03 PM	Well, I was referring to HDQ as two seperate things. The H and the DQ :schemes:
FriendoftheDork 02-14-08, 03:45 PM	No, that would to be torn apart by wild horses, an almost certainly fictional execution method as you risk injuring several horses, and horses are highly valuable. This is hung drawn and quartered. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered) AH, legdiwena brought me to it. It doesen't change the fact that being drawn after a horse at high speed is very dangerous and will likely result in the death of the victim... unless he's a level 10 fighter with 90 HPs... :D
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 03:51 PM	level 10 fighter with 90 HPs... :D Well at my estimate of d6 per round, that is about 25-26 rounds. Two mins, 30 - two mins 36... Still pretty deadly.
Fitz10019 02-15-08, 11:44 AM	I've got some salamanders that I want to try and drag some PCs kicking and screaming into a pit. (Or at least try to.) Are the salamanders going into the pit with the PCs? Or, are they dragging the PCs to the pit, then chucking the PCs into it, but staying outside themselves?