Druid Animal Form [Archive] - Wizards Community

Druid Animal Form [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sondur Dragonbane
07-26-07, 02:55 PM Does a druid in animal form gain the Exsceptional (Ex) qualities of that form. As an example say I Wild Shape in to a crocodile, do I gain the Hold Breath ability of that form? If I become an eagle do I gain the exceptional eyesight of an eagle?
Edana
07-26-07, 03:13 PM Druid wildshape is based on the Alternate Form ability (with a few special notes, but those aren't relevant to this particular question).

Alternate Form
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.

So, you gain any (Ex) special attacks, but not any (Ex) special qualities.

Both of the examples you have listed are special qualities, not attacks, so you would get neither the Hold Breath ability, nor the eyesight.

Something you could get would be an ability like Constrict for turning into a constrictor snake, or the Posion of a viper.
Jackmojo
07-26-07, 03:45 PM Edana is absolutely correct, which is why there is a fourth level spell in the Spell Compendium that grants you those (Ex) qualities. :)

Jack
Sondur Dragonbane
07-26-07, 03:48 PM Well that is plain old STUPID! Honestly to me the best part of Wild Shape was the ability to get things like Breathe Water, tremorsense, and what not.

So I can attack like a tiger, run like a tiger, but I don't have the sense of smell that a tiger has (Scent ability)?

So druids are one with nature but not one enough to truly mimic an animal form? That is sad.
Sondur Dragonbane
07-26-07, 03:51 PM So I have to use up a 4th level spell for something that is inherent to the animal I become? I guess this was done for "balance" issues. Since wizards/sorcerers need to use a 4th level spell to do something similar (nevermind they aren't restricted to animals) I guess the glorious WotC folks decided to "balance" things.

Strangely I never saw this (Wild Shape) as an issue of balance and personally I rarely see anyone I know playing a druid.
Edana
07-26-07, 04:08 PM To be fair, even Polymorph doesn't grant the (Ex) special qualities, just the attacks.

I think some of the newer (polymorph) subschool spells might, but I don't have my books at work, and those spells are much more limited in the scope of what they do.
Jackmojo
07-26-07, 04:09 PM I may be misquoting, but one of the Rules of the Optimization board is something along the lines of "Do not doubt the druid for he is mighty indeed".

Trust me, being limited to the special attacks is not much of a limit, and remember once you get elementals you get all (Ex, SU, and SA) abilities, such as they are.

Couple that with the druid being a one man party (free fighter with Animal companion, plus wildshape, plus full spell casting with a fair mix between wizard style combat spells and healing) the only thing they can't do as a rule is disarm traps, but then most small or tiny animals shouldn't trigger them anyway :)

Jack
Sondur Dragonbane
07-26-07, 04:16 PM See I don't do optimization or read those boards. I didn't really look at a druid as a one man party in the D&D world. In the WoW MMO sure but not in D&D.

To me I always felt that because a druid was truly in tune with nature they could mimic the animals of nature. Honestly most Ex non-combat abilities of animals are not anything close to game breaking IMO. Breathing water, holding your breath, scent, and etc. are all useful yes but I don't see how these were over-powered.
Jackmojo
07-26-07, 05:02 PM To me I always felt that because a druid was truly in tune with nature they could mimic the animals of nature. Honestly most Ex non-combat abilities of animals are not anything close to game breaking IMO. Breathing water, holding your breath, scent, and etc. are all useful yes but I don't see how these were over-powered.

Fair enough, keep in mind you do indeed get actual water breathing (assuming the animal your turn into has the Aquatic subtype), holding your breath in DnD is a function of CON, so lots of animals can do it quite well, and the rest you can have whenever you like from level 7 on (plus all the animals feats and skill bonuses and what have you).

Jack
Marcus Majarra
07-26-07, 05:04 PM Well that is plain old STUPID! Honestly to me the best part of Wild Shape was the ability to get things like Breathe Water, tremorsense, and what not.

So I can attack like a tiger, run like a tiger, but I don't have the sense of smell that a tiger has (Scent ability)?

So druids are one with nature but not one enough to truly mimic an animal form? That is sad.
The Wild Shape ability will not allow a druid to do so, but casting shapechange (Drd 9th) will.

In any case, water breathing is covered by Wild Shape. The aquatic subtype is the only subtype you can acquire through the ability, and all creatures with this subtype can breathe water.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sondur Dragonbane 07-26-07, 02:55 PM	Does a druid in animal form gain the Exsceptional (Ex) qualities of that form. As an example say I Wild Shape in to a crocodile, do I gain the Hold Breath ability of that form? If I become an eagle do I gain the exceptional eyesight of an eagle?
Edana 07-26-07, 03:13 PM	Druid wildshape is based on the Alternate Form ability (with a few special notes, but those aren't relevant to this particular question). Alternate Form The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form. So, you gain any (Ex) special attacks, but not any (Ex) special qualities. Both of the examples you have listed are special qualities, not attacks, so you would get neither the Hold Breath ability, nor the eyesight. Something you could get would be an ability like Constrict for turning into a constrictor snake, or the Posion of a viper.
Jackmojo 07-26-07, 03:45 PM	Edana is absolutely correct, which is why there is a fourth level spell in the Spell Compendium that grants you those (Ex) qualities. :) Jack
Sondur Dragonbane 07-26-07, 03:48 PM	Well that is plain old STUPID! Honestly to me the best part of Wild Shape was the ability to get things like Breathe Water, tremorsense, and what not. So I can attack like a tiger, run like a tiger, but I don't have the sense of smell that a tiger has (Scent ability)? So druids are one with nature but not one enough to truly mimic an animal form? That is sad.
Sondur Dragonbane 07-26-07, 03:51 PM	So I have to use up a 4th level spell for something that is inherent to the animal I become? I guess this was done for "balance" issues. Since wizards/sorcerers need to use a 4th level spell to do something similar (nevermind they aren't restricted to animals) I guess the glorious WotC folks decided to "balance" things. Strangely I never saw this (Wild Shape) as an issue of balance and personally I rarely see anyone I know playing a druid.
Edana 07-26-07, 04:08 PM	To be fair, even Polymorph doesn't grant the (Ex) special qualities, just the attacks. I think some of the newer (polymorph) subschool spells might, but I don't have my books at work, and those spells are much more limited in the scope of what they do.
Jackmojo 07-26-07, 04:09 PM	I may be misquoting, but one of the Rules of the Optimization board is something along the lines of "Do not doubt the druid for he is mighty indeed". Trust me, being limited to the special attacks is not much of a limit, and remember once you get elementals you get all (Ex, SU, and SA) abilities, such as they are. Couple that with the druid being a one man party (free fighter with Animal companion, plus wildshape, plus full spell casting with a fair mix between wizard style combat spells and healing) the only thing they can't do as a rule is disarm traps, but then most small or tiny animals shouldn't trigger them anyway :) Jack
Sondur Dragonbane 07-26-07, 04:16 PM	See I don't do optimization or read those boards. I didn't really look at a druid as a one man party in the D&D world. In the WoW MMO sure but not in D&D. To me I always felt that because a druid was truly in tune with nature they could mimic the animals of nature. Honestly most Ex non-combat abilities of animals are not anything close to game breaking IMO. Breathing water, holding your breath, scent, and etc. are all useful yes but I don't see how these were over-powered.
Jackmojo 07-26-07, 05:02 PM	To me I always felt that because a druid was truly in tune with nature they could mimic the animals of nature. Honestly most Ex non-combat abilities of animals are not anything close to game breaking IMO. Breathing water, holding your breath, scent, and etc. are all useful yes but I don't see how these were over-powered. Fair enough, keep in mind you do indeed get actual water breathing (assuming the animal your turn into has the Aquatic subtype), holding your breath in DnD is a function of CON, so lots of animals can do it quite well, and the rest you can have whenever you like from level 7 on (plus all the animals feats and skill bonuses and what have you). Jack
Marcus Majarra 07-26-07, 05:04 PM	Well that is plain old STUPID! Honestly to me the best part of Wild Shape was the ability to get things like Breathe Water, tremorsense, and what not. So I can attack like a tiger, run like a tiger, but I don't have the sense of smell that a tiger has (Scent ability)? So druids are one with nature but not one enough to truly mimic an animal form? That is sad. The Wild Shape ability will not allow a druid to do so, but casting shapechange (Drd 9th) will. In any case, water breathing is covered by Wild Shape. The aquatic subtype is the only subtype you can acquire through the ability, and all creatures with this subtype can breathe water.