ECL, level adjustments and HD. [Archive] - Wizards Community

ECL, level adjustments and HD. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
partyduk
07-26-07, 09:23 AM I am a relatively new DM. I am a very mathematical person and the D&D system appeals to me. One snag that I've hit is the ECL equation. I understand that ECL = HD + adjustment + class levels. But where do these come from?

Here's my situation. The champion character of one of my friends is a sand giant monk. For all intensive purposes, this is a 19th (15 HD and a +4 level adjustment) level character plus whatever monk levels he takes. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. This applies to experience requirements yes?

Now, the character has 15 HD from the levels of sand giant. The level adjustment is +4. Does this mean that it has 4 levels of sand giant and they grant 15 HD total? (which means he gets multiple HD per level) Or does he have 15 levels of sand giant, and his abilities warrant the level adjustment?

That is my primary question, is the level adjustment based on actual levels, or abilities that are powerful enough to require the adjustment?

Thanks
-Duk
Steely_Dan
07-26-07, 09:41 AM He would be a 15 HD giant with a LA +4 for a total ECL of 19, but a CL of 15 (HD).

ECL is only ever used to calculate XP needed to level and expected character wealth.

If the character takes a level of monk it would be ECL 20 and CL 16.
Puca
07-26-07, 09:59 AM ECL doesnt really equal HD + LA + class levels. Sorta, but theres a critical error here.

ECL equals HD + LA.
The confusion (I think) comes from the two "types" of HD.

Characters can have "racial" hit die. They also gain a hit die every time they gain a class level.

I think youre right in you thinking, but that word "racial" in front of HD is sorta important.

Here's my situation. The champion character of one of my friends is a sand giant monk. For all intensive purposes, this is a 19th (15 HD and a +4 level adjustment) level character plus whatever monk levels he takes. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. This applies to experience requirements yes? Yes. If he started out as a sand giant, and wanted a level of monk, it would take as many expirience points as it would take to reach 20th level.

Now, the character has 15 HD from the levels of sand giant. The level adjustment is +4. Does this mean that it has 4 levels of sand giant and they grant 15 HD total? No. The level adjustment only comes into effect when you consider the xp you need to advance a level and in determining the level of the party.

(which means he gets multiple HD per level)Never. No such thing as two hd per level

Or does he have 15 levels of sand giant, and his abilities warrant the level adjustment?Yes. Using an easier creature, say a drow.

Drow have LA+2.
Imagine a level 1 elf rogue and a level 1 drow rogue.

They have the same class abilities, and the drow has almost all of the same racial abilities as the regular elf plus a bonus to two mental stats, darkvision twice a good as a dwarfs, SR, a bonus to Will saves, and his own spell-like abilities: clearly, it is far more powerful.

It was decided that the drow rogue 1 was actually powerful as an elf rogue 3, and there you have the LA.

Your sand giant character would have the racial traits listed in the monsters description, plus all the skills and feats of a 15 HD creature. (Six feats, plus any racial bonus feats, and, if it follows the giant type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#giantType):

15d8 hit points, 32 skill points (pre Int modifiers), a BAB of 11, and saves of +9/+5/+5.
runestar
07-26-07, 10:11 AM ECL doesnt really equal HD + LA + class levels. Sorta, but theres a critical error here.

ECL equals HD + LA.
The confusion (I think) comes from the two "types" of HD.

HD is HD. I don't see the need to differentiate between the 2 in this case.

ECL simply refers to how powerful a PC is compared to the rest of his party.

For example, a minotaur has 6 racial HD and LA+2, for a total ECL of 8. This means he is supposedly the equivalent of a 8th lv character.

Likewise, a minotaur barb2 is ECL10. This means that he is the equivalent of a 10th lv PC.
Puca
07-26-07, 12:36 PM I only distinguished between racial and class-granted hd because the op did in adding hd and "levels" to get ECL.

Youre right: Hit dice are hit dice, whatever the source, and you add the total hd to LA to get ECL.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
partyduk 07-26-07, 09:23 AM	I am a relatively new DM. I am a very mathematical person and the D&D system appeals to me. One snag that I've hit is the ECL equation. I understand that ECL = HD + adjustment + class levels. But where do these come from? Here's my situation. The champion character of one of my friends is a sand giant monk. For all intensive purposes, this is a 19th (15 HD and a +4 level adjustment) level character plus whatever monk levels he takes. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. This applies to experience requirements yes? Now, the character has 15 HD from the levels of sand giant. The level adjustment is +4. Does this mean that it has 4 levels of sand giant and they grant 15 HD total? (which means he gets multiple HD per level) Or does he have 15 levels of sand giant, and his abilities warrant the level adjustment? That is my primary question, is the level adjustment based on actual levels, or abilities that are powerful enough to require the adjustment? Thanks -Duk
Steely_Dan 07-26-07, 09:41 AM	He would be a 15 HD giant with a LA +4 for a total ECL of 19, but a CL of 15 (HD). ECL is only ever used to calculate XP needed to level and expected character wealth. If the character takes a level of monk it would be ECL 20 and CL 16.
Puca 07-26-07, 09:59 AM	ECL doesnt really equal HD + LA + class levels. Sorta, but theres a critical error here. ECL equals HD + LA. The confusion (I think) comes from the two "types" of HD. Characters can have "racial" hit die. They also gain a hit die every time they gain a class level. I think youre right in you thinking, but that word "racial" in front of HD is sorta important. Here's my situation. The champion character of one of my friends is a sand giant monk. For all intensive purposes, this is a 19th (15 HD and a +4 level adjustment) level character plus whatever monk levels he takes. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. This applies to experience requirements yes? Yes. If he started out as a sand giant, and wanted a level of monk, it would take as many expirience points as it would take to reach 20th level. Now, the character has 15 HD from the levels of sand giant. The level adjustment is +4. Does this mean that it has 4 levels of sand giant and they grant 15 HD total? No. The level adjustment only comes into effect when you consider the xp you need to advance a level and in determining the level of the party. (which means he gets multiple HD per level)Never. No such thing as two hd per level Or does he have 15 levels of sand giant, and his abilities warrant the level adjustment?Yes. Using an easier creature, say a drow. Drow have LA+2. Imagine a level 1 elf rogue and a level 1 drow rogue. They have the same class abilities, and the drow has almost all of the same racial abilities as the regular elf plus a bonus to two mental stats, darkvision twice a good as a dwarfs, SR, a bonus to Will saves, and his own spell-like abilities: clearly, it is far more powerful. It was decided that the drow rogue 1 was actually powerful as an elf rogue 3, and there you have the LA. Your sand giant character would have the racial traits listed in the monsters description, plus all the skills and feats of a 15 HD creature. (Six feats, plus any racial bonus feats, and, if it follows the giant type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#giantType): 15d8 hit points, 32 skill points (pre Int modifiers), a BAB of 11, and saves of +9/+5/+5.
runestar 07-26-07, 10:11 AM	ECL doesnt really equal HD + LA + class levels. Sorta, but theres a critical error here. ECL equals HD + LA. The confusion (I think) comes from the two "types" of HD. HD is HD. I don't see the need to differentiate between the 2 in this case. ECL simply refers to how powerful a PC is compared to the rest of his party. For example, a minotaur has 6 racial HD and LA+2, for a total ECL of 8. This means he is supposedly the equivalent of a 8th lv character. Likewise, a minotaur barb2 is ECL10. This means that he is the equivalent of a 10th lv PC.
Puca 07-26-07, 12:36 PM	I only distinguished between racial and class-granted hd because the op did in adding hd and "levels" to get ECL. Youre right: Hit dice are hit dice, whatever the source, and you add the total hd to LA to get ECL.