EL calcuations [Archive] - Wizards Community

EL calcuations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aryxbez
04-27-07, 11:11 PM In the SRD, there is the Encounter calculator, however I sounds to be not that reliable.

For example it says a party of 8, 8th level characters would be a Party ECL of 10. Is that even right? I mean 8 characters is pretty much twice the size of a party, to say every 2 PCs contributes only half a extra one to the ECL doesn't sound right at all.

In my opinion is should be about a ECL of 12, each other PC contributing an extra one to ECL.

As I am never a 100% experienced when it comes to this sometimes. What are your guys thoughts on this? Also what is your method for ECL with party members?
Marcus Majarra
04-27-07, 11:25 PM Actually, the Encounter Calculator is pretty accurate on this one. 8 characters of the same level will produce an average party level two levels higher (assuming the average party consists of 4 characters). You can even evidence this using the experience point tables from your DMG on page 38.

Let's take, for example, a CR 8 challenge used against a 4-character 8th-level party. The encounter is worth 2,400 exp, or 600 exp each. For an 8-character 8th-level party to gain 600 exp per character, it would need to be faced with an encounter worth 4,800 exp. If you look to the experience awards granted to 8th-level characters, you'll notice that a CR 10 challenge will provide exactly this amount. This means that for a group of 4, fighting an enemy of a given CR will award as much experience per character as fighting an opponent with a CR two points higher would for a group of 8. Every time the party size doubles, the party level increases by 2.
Aryxbez
04-28-07, 01:23 AM Your proof stands out well, seems you are right. Just doesn't seem right however when it is about 10 PCs or something of that sort. seeing how in theory twice the party members should be able to take on Twice as many enemies.
ashcat_lt
04-28-07, 01:46 AM ECL 8 would be 4 level 8 PCs. They should have a good challenge an EL 8 encounter. Double the PCs, ECL increases to 10. Take two CR8 critters and the EL = 10. As you said, double PCs can handle double monsters.

The problem comes when you instead decide to throw a single CR10 critter at them. That creature might be just beyond the current resources of the party, his EL would actually be underestimated, and he'd be worth more XP. He also might be completely overwhelmed by the superior numbers in which case we've overestimated him and should decrease the XP granted.
Aryxbez
04-28-07, 02:09 AM Well I am glad to know I can trust the Encounter calculator. Only problem with it now is that it only goes to CR 20. There are creatures such as the Titan, or Great wyrm dragons, that go over CR 20. but does increase the numbers on the calculator to get the desired monster ECL work? so to get CR 26 like a great wyrm dragon just increase the number on the calculator by 8?
Marcus Majarra
04-29-07, 02:21 AM That's correct. Just run 8 CR 20 creatures in the calculator, and you wind up with an encounter level of 26. The experience awards remain consistent at high levels, regardless of the number of opponents or party members.
Aryxbez
04-29-07, 01:13 PM Good to know, Thank you for the help
Onikani
04-29-07, 04:05 PM The problem comes when you instead decide to throw a single CR10 critter at them. That creature might be just beyond the current resources of the party, his EL would actually be underestimated, and he'd be worth more XP. He also might be completely overwhelmed by the superior numbers in which case we've overestimated him and should decrease the XP granted.

This is exactly it in a nutshell.

I've never had a problem with Exp Calc, it always does the math perfectly for me. I also never really look at teh EL or APL beforehand either, i know what my players can handle.
:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aryxbez 04-27-07, 11:11 PM	In the SRD, there is the Encounter calculator, however I sounds to be not that reliable. For example it says a party of 8, 8th level characters would be a Party ECL of 10. Is that even right? I mean 8 characters is pretty much twice the size of a party, to say every 2 PCs contributes only half a extra one to the ECL doesn't sound right at all. In my opinion is should be about a ECL of 12, each other PC contributing an extra one to ECL. As I am never a 100% experienced when it comes to this sometimes. What are your guys thoughts on this? Also what is your method for ECL with party members?
Marcus Majarra 04-27-07, 11:25 PM	Actually, the Encounter Calculator is pretty accurate on this one. 8 characters of the same level will produce an average party level two levels higher (assuming the average party consists of 4 characters). You can even evidence this using the experience point tables from your DMG on page 38. Let's take, for example, a CR 8 challenge used against a 4-character 8th-level party. The encounter is worth 2,400 exp, or 600 exp each. For an 8-character 8th-level party to gain 600 exp per character, it would need to be faced with an encounter worth 4,800 exp. If you look to the experience awards granted to 8th-level characters, you'll notice that a CR 10 challenge will provide exactly this amount. This means that for a group of 4, fighting an enemy of a given CR will award as much experience per character as fighting an opponent with a CR two points higher would for a group of 8. Every time the party size doubles, the party level increases by 2.
Aryxbez 04-28-07, 01:23 AM	Your proof stands out well, seems you are right. Just doesn't seem right however when it is about 10 PCs or something of that sort. seeing how in theory twice the party members should be able to take on Twice as many enemies.
ashcat_lt 04-28-07, 01:46 AM	ECL 8 would be 4 level 8 PCs. They should have a good challenge an EL 8 encounter. Double the PCs, ECL increases to 10. Take two CR8 critters and the EL = 10. As you said, double PCs can handle double monsters. The problem comes when you instead decide to throw a single CR10 critter at them. That creature might be just beyond the current resources of the party, his EL would actually be underestimated, and he'd be worth more XP. He also might be completely overwhelmed by the superior numbers in which case we've overestimated him and should decrease the XP granted.
Aryxbez 04-28-07, 02:09 AM	Well I am glad to know I can trust the Encounter calculator. Only problem with it now is that it only goes to CR 20. There are creatures such as the Titan, or Great wyrm dragons, that go over CR 20. but does increase the numbers on the calculator to get the desired monster ECL work? so to get CR 26 like a great wyrm dragon just increase the number on the calculator by 8?
Marcus Majarra 04-29-07, 02:21 AM	That's correct. Just run 8 CR 20 creatures in the calculator, and you wind up with an encounter level of 26. The experience awards remain consistent at high levels, regardless of the number of opponents or party members.
Aryxbez 04-29-07, 01:13 PM	Good to know, Thank you for the help
Onikani 04-29-07, 04:05 PM	The problem comes when you instead decide to throw a single CR10 critter at them. That creature might be just beyond the current resources of the party, his EL would actually be underestimated, and he'd be worth more XP. He also might be completely overwhelmed by the superior numbers in which case we've overestimated him and should decrease the XP granted. This is exactly it in a nutshell. I've never had a problem with Exp Calc, it always does the math perfectly for me. I also never really look at teh EL or APL beforehand either, i know what my players can handle. :)