Factotum Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Factotum Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PaladinTook
03-20-07, 06:07 PM One of the players in my group is going to be playing the Factotum class(Dungeonscape page 14). I am unsure about there abilites that they use inspiration points for. Can they use multiple points for an ability or not?

The cunning knowledge skill allows the factotum to spend one inspiration point to gain a skill bonus equal to his factotum level.

EX: Bob(lvl 6) wants to hide from some guards so he uses an inspiration point to gain a +6 to his hide skill. Can Bob use 3 inspiration points to gain a +18 to his hide skill?

I realize it say's you can only use it once per day for a particular skill and you can't improve other hide checks that day but can he improve his first check alot by simply using multiple inspiration points all at once?

Cunning Brilliance allows a factotum to use 4 inspiration points he can gain the benefits and drawbacks of an Ex class ability for one minute. Can the factotum use it twice by simply spending 8 points and gaining two Ex class abilities for a minute? Using cunning brilliance is a free action.

Also if the factotum use 4 inspiration points to gain the Ex druid ability Timeless body do they stop aging forever or only for one minute?
Arr MiHardies
03-20-07, 08:13 PM Same thing goes for the animal companion(ex) ability of a ranger/druid. If the factotum uses his ability to mimick the animal companion ability, do they gain that animal companion permanantly?

Also, If you can choose any ability below 15th level from a standard core class, can you choose, say, the rogues sneak attack ability at their 15th level and do more than 1d6 of sneak attack damage?
Marcus Majarra
03-21-07, 01:29 AM Cunning Knowledge, Cunning Brilliance, and stacking
As with any effects originating from the same source, this one will not stack unless otherwise mentioned. Thus, he can't spend more inspiration points to get a bigger bonus on his skill check using Cunning Knowledge. Similarly, using Cunning Brilliance a second time while the first one is active will result in overlapping effects, and the second one will take precedence.

Using Cunning Brilliance
The benefits/drawbacks of this ability will only last one minute. When emulating timeless body, the factotum will stop his physical aging for 1 minute. When emulating the animal companion feature, the companion only stays for 1 minute. Finally, the factotum can indeed emulate a 15th-level rogue's sneak attack +8d6 ability, since it appears on the rogue's advancement table.
Arr MiHardies
03-21-07, 03:15 AM Very nice, concise answers. Thank You.
PaladinTook
03-21-07, 05:57 PM Cunning Knowledge, Cunning Brilliance, and stacking
As with any effects originating from the same source, this one will not stack unless otherwise mentioned. Thus, he can't spend more inspiration points to get a bigger bonus on his skill check using Cunning Knowledge. Similarly, using Cunning Brilliance a second time while the first one is active will result in overlapping effects, and the second one will take precedence.

Using Cunning Brilliance
The benefits/drawbacks of this ability will only last one minute. When emulating timeless body, the factotum will stop his physical aging for 1 minute. When emulating the animal companion feature, the companion only stays for 1 minute. Finally, the factotum can indeed emulate a 15th-level rogue's sneak attack +8d6 ability, since it appears on the rogue's advancement table.

I don't have the book right now but there is an ability that allows the Factotum to spend one inpiration point to gain 1d6 dmg on his next attack. If you are correct and he can't spend more points should I just houserule it that he can? 1d6 seems rather weak, after they gain a couple levels it really won't be worth wasting an inspiration point on.

Could you please explain why the factotum could use the rouges sneak attack ability? It isn't labeled as an Ex ability in the book and the factotum can only emulate Ex abilities. The fact that it is in the rouges advancement table isn't going to work because wild shape(su) is in the druids advancement table and smite evil(su) is in the paladin's advancement table but the factotum can't emulate either of these.

Thanks for the help so far.
Marcus Majarra
03-22-07, 03:50 PM 1) The factotum can spend an inspiration point to gain a competence bonus on weapon damage (among other available options) equal to the factotum's Int modifier. Barring the fact that the same ability will not stack unless otherwise mentioned, two competence bonuses do not stack.

2) I stand corrected on factotums using Cunning Brilliance to emulate Sneak Attack. Since it is not labeled as an Ex ability, it cannot be emulated.
allenchan
03-22-07, 05:32 PM 2) I stand corrected on factotums using Cunning Brilliance to emulate Sneak Attack. Since it is not labeled as an Ex ability, it cannot be emulated.

note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum.
PaladinTook
03-23-07, 08:46 AM note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum.

We had been thinking that only abilities from the core phb could be used since abilities from all books might be to much. It doesn't clearly state either way though so does anyone know if you can all use all base classes Ex abilites from all books or only the core?

Thanks for the help so far.
Marcus Majarra
03-24-07, 12:58 PM note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum.

It's highly possible. If you'll look at the Complete Adventurer's spellthief, you'll notice that its sneak attack is an extraordinary special attack.

This said, I would be inclined to allow a Factotum to emulate the rogue's sneak attack.
mwbeeler
03-25-07, 11:32 AM I went a little nuts:

Standard Class Abilities (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=815866)
KingMarl
03-27-07, 02:22 PM Am I the only one that noticed the level 8 Factotum ability:

Cunning Surge (Ex): By spending 3 inspiration points, you can take an extra standard action during your turn.

Holy bejezis!

Who needs 9th-level Diamond Mind maneuvers from Tome of Battle? Just take 8 levels in Factotum and you can do the same thing - except that instead of an extra full attack action, it's any standard action. Want to cast True Strike and take a full attack action in the same turn? You're all set. Want to move and get a full attack action in? Still all set. Want to get a move+single attack+move (or perhaps, True Strike+single attack+move) versus the BBEG? Done.

Granted, you can't get in two full attack actions like you can with Time Stands Still, but throwing four Magic Missiles at someone and then taking a full attack action (Factotum 8) is nothing to sneer at - and unlike a Wizard 9 with a Quickened Magic Missile, you have a decent BAB and hit points.

At Factotum 11, you can do the True Strike/full attack thing twice in an encounter, and at Factotum 13 you can True Strike your first two strikes in the first round once you get 5th-level spells and can Quicken a True Strike, or you can do it for 3 rounds.

However, the power curve seems to top out at the mid-levels, and a higher level Factotum seems to be more of an emergency first aid kit than a power character - I don't think a Factotum 15 compares all that well to a Fighter 15 or a Wizard 15 after the first round or two.
Marcus Majarra
03-27-07, 05:21 PM I fail to see the purpose behind combining true strike with a full attack. True strike lasts until your next attack, or the end of the following turn, whichever comes first. The big drawback of true strike is that it usually ruins one round to make one attack worthwhile. While cunning surge helps you get around this problem, you'll only be doing so once per encounter until you have at least 11 factotum levels (and never more than three times per encounter at level 20). And this is assuming you have an alternative way to casting true strike, since using your ardent dilettante spells also eat up inspiration points.

I find amusing that you think thatan 8th-level factotum unleashing four magic missiles and making a full attack to be strong. It is highly doubtful that the factotum can keep up with a fighter-type at this level, even with the added boost of 8-20 points of damage. Which he can do only once per encounter. And no more than twice per day. While scorching ray, lightning bolt, and fireball make better choices at this point, these are still limited tricks, and it will not make up for the factotum's total lack of lasting power.

Simply put, the factotum is the all-purpose skill monkey.
KingMarl
03-27-07, 05:49 PM My first reaction was before I realized it said Standard action, which made me think it was a duplicate of Time Stands Still, but for an 8th-level character.

It's definitely a one-shot trick, but it's still decent for an 8th-level character, it seems to me. Both the 8th-level Factotum and the 8th-level Fighter will get 2 attacks in a full attack; being able to make one of those a True Strike the same round as you make the attack is pretty good, even though Power Attack is limited to +6. That was just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's other non-first level spell combos that would be far nastier, given that an 8th-level Factotum can cast 3rd level spells (phantasmal assailants, lightning bolt, grease and dispel magic all come to mind).

In hindsight, however, I think it's the extra mobility that's more useful. Nothing like being able to advance your full move and take a full attack action (or vice-versa).
Marcus Majarra
03-27-07, 06:46 PM In this aspect, it becomes a much more limited version of the Marshal's Grant Move Action. It's the more common use for this ability, as you'll generally want to be mobile early to limit your opponents' movement.
taski
03-28-07, 02:23 AM The Factotom does not need to use Cunning Brilliance to get sneak attack. He has the 4th-level ability Cunning Strike, which allows him to spend 1 IP for 1d6 sneak attack. The ability does not specify that the factotum may spend multiple IP to gain multiple sneak attack dice. However, I would allow it, as 1d6 gets pretty useless at higher levels.
Mystyc
03-30-07, 03:26 AM The ability does not specify that the factotum may spend multiple IP to gain multiple sneak attack dice. However, I would allow it, as 1d6 gets pretty useless at higher levels.
Let's not kid around -- it's pretty useless even if you can spend multiple points.

Also, how long does it take to summon an animal companion? Depending on location (middle of a city? elemental plane of earth?), there may be ad hoc limits on what is available to companionize.
tos_shai_hulud
04-01-07, 11:37 PM According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#specialAbilities), "A special ability is either extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural in nature." So, if it is not spell-like or supernatural, it is extraordinary. Sneak-attack is not supernatural or spell-like, so would that automatically make it extraordinary?
BacchusG
04-01-07, 11:39 PM You can't do the True Strike trick more than once per day as a pure factotum. They may only use there spell like ability on a particular prepared spell once per day and may only prepare a spell once. That means they can only prepare 1 true strike and only mimic true strike once.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PaladinTook 03-20-07, 06:07 PM	One of the players in my group is going to be playing the Factotum class(Dungeonscape page 14). I am unsure about there abilites that they use inspiration points for. Can they use multiple points for an ability or not? The cunning knowledge skill allows the factotum to spend one inspiration point to gain a skill bonus equal to his factotum level. EX: Bob(lvl 6) wants to hide from some guards so he uses an inspiration point to gain a +6 to his hide skill. Can Bob use 3 inspiration points to gain a +18 to his hide skill? I realize it say's you can only use it once per day for a particular skill and you can't improve other hide checks that day but can he improve his first check alot by simply using multiple inspiration points all at once? Cunning Brilliance allows a factotum to use 4 inspiration points he can gain the benefits and drawbacks of an Ex class ability for one minute. Can the factotum use it twice by simply spending 8 points and gaining two Ex class abilities for a minute? Using cunning brilliance is a free action. Also if the factotum use 4 inspiration points to gain the Ex druid ability Timeless body do they stop aging forever or only for one minute?
Arr MiHardies 03-20-07, 08:13 PM	Same thing goes for the animal companion(ex) ability of a ranger/druid. If the factotum uses his ability to mimick the animal companion ability, do they gain that animal companion permanantly? Also, If you can choose any ability below 15th level from a standard core class, can you choose, say, the rogues sneak attack ability at their 15th level and do more than 1d6 of sneak attack damage?
Marcus Majarra 03-21-07, 01:29 AM	Cunning Knowledge, Cunning Brilliance, and stacking As with any effects originating from the same source, this one will not stack unless otherwise mentioned. Thus, he can't spend more inspiration points to get a bigger bonus on his skill check using Cunning Knowledge. Similarly, using Cunning Brilliance a second time while the first one is active will result in overlapping effects, and the second one will take precedence. Using Cunning Brilliance The benefits/drawbacks of this ability will only last one minute. When emulating timeless body, the factotum will stop his physical aging for 1 minute. When emulating the animal companion feature, the companion only stays for 1 minute. Finally, the factotum can indeed emulate a 15th-level rogue's sneak attack +8d6 ability, since it appears on the rogue's advancement table.
Arr MiHardies 03-21-07, 03:15 AM	Very nice, concise answers. Thank You.
PaladinTook 03-21-07, 05:57 PM	Cunning Knowledge, Cunning Brilliance, and stacking As with any effects originating from the same source, this one will not stack unless otherwise mentioned. Thus, he can't spend more inspiration points to get a bigger bonus on his skill check using Cunning Knowledge. Similarly, using Cunning Brilliance a second time while the first one is active will result in overlapping effects, and the second one will take precedence. Using Cunning Brilliance The benefits/drawbacks of this ability will only last one minute. When emulating timeless body, the factotum will stop his physical aging for 1 minute. When emulating the animal companion feature, the companion only stays for 1 minute. Finally, the factotum can indeed emulate a 15th-level rogue's sneak attack +8d6 ability, since it appears on the rogue's advancement table. I don't have the book right now but there is an ability that allows the Factotum to spend one inpiration point to gain 1d6 dmg on his next attack. If you are correct and he can't spend more points should I just houserule it that he can? 1d6 seems rather weak, after they gain a couple levels it really won't be worth wasting an inspiration point on. Could you please explain why the factotum could use the rouges sneak attack ability? It isn't labeled as an Ex ability in the book and the factotum can only emulate Ex abilities. The fact that it is in the rouges advancement table isn't going to work because wild shape(su) is in the druids advancement table and smite evil(su) is in the paladin's advancement table but the factotum can't emulate either of these. Thanks for the help so far.
Marcus Majarra 03-22-07, 03:50 PM	1) The factotum can spend an inspiration point to gain a competence bonus on weapon damage (among other available options) equal to the factotum's Int modifier. Barring the fact that the same ability will not stack unless otherwise mentioned, two competence bonuses do not stack. 2) I stand corrected on factotums using Cunning Brilliance to emulate Sneak Attack. Since it is not labeled as an Ex ability, it cannot be emulated.
allenchan 03-22-07, 05:32 PM	2) I stand corrected on factotums using Cunning Brilliance to emulate Sneak Attack. Since it is not labeled as an Ex ability, it cannot be emulated. note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum.
PaladinTook 03-23-07, 08:46 AM	note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum. We had been thinking that only abilities from the core phb could be used since abilities from all books might be to much. It doesn't clearly state either way though so does anyone know if you can all use all base classes Ex abilites from all books or only the core? Thanks for the help so far.
Marcus Majarra 03-24-07, 12:58 PM	note however that both skirmish and sudden strike are (ex) (scout and ninja). imo, its an oversight that sneak attack was not, but they're both fair substitutes for the factotum. It's highly possible. If you'll look at the Complete Adventurer's spellthief, you'll notice that its sneak attack is an extraordinary special attack. This said, I would be inclined to allow a Factotum to emulate the rogue's sneak attack.
mwbeeler 03-25-07, 11:32 AM	I went a little nuts: Standard Class Abilities (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=815866)
KingMarl 03-27-07, 02:22 PM	Am I the only one that noticed the level 8 Factotum ability: Cunning Surge (Ex): By spending 3 inspiration points, you can take an extra standard action during your turn. Holy bejezis! Who needs 9th-level Diamond Mind maneuvers from Tome of Battle? Just take 8 levels in Factotum and you can do the same thing - except that instead of an extra full attack action, it's any standard action. Want to cast True Strike and take a full attack action in the same turn? You're all set. Want to move and get a full attack action in? Still all set. Want to get a move+single attack+move (or perhaps, True Strike+single attack+move) versus the BBEG? Done. Granted, you can't get in two full attack actions like you can with Time Stands Still, but throwing four Magic Missiles at someone and then taking a full attack action (Factotum 8) is nothing to sneer at - and unlike a Wizard 9 with a Quickened Magic Missile, you have a decent BAB and hit points. At Factotum 11, you can do the True Strike/full attack thing twice in an encounter, and at Factotum 13 you can True Strike your first two strikes in the first round once you get 5th-level spells and can Quicken a True Strike, or you can do it for 3 rounds. However, the power curve seems to top out at the mid-levels, and a higher level Factotum seems to be more of an emergency first aid kit than a power character - I don't think a Factotum 15 compares all that well to a Fighter 15 or a Wizard 15 after the first round or two.
Marcus Majarra 03-27-07, 05:21 PM	I fail to see the purpose behind combining true strike with a full attack. True strike lasts until your next attack, or the end of the following turn, whichever comes first. The big drawback of true strike is that it usually ruins one round to make one attack worthwhile. While cunning surge helps you get around this problem, you'll only be doing so once per encounter until you have at least 11 factotum levels (and never more than three times per encounter at level 20). And this is assuming you have an alternative way to casting true strike, since using your ardent dilettante spells also eat up inspiration points. I find amusing that you think thatan 8th-level factotum unleashing four magic missiles and making a full attack to be strong. It is highly doubtful that the factotum can keep up with a fighter-type at this level, even with the added boost of 8-20 points of damage. Which he can do only once per encounter. And no more than twice per day. While scorching ray, lightning bolt, and fireball make better choices at this point, these are still limited tricks, and it will not make up for the factotum's total lack of lasting power. Simply put, the factotum is the all-purpose skill monkey.
KingMarl 03-27-07, 05:49 PM	My first reaction was before I realized it said Standard action, which made me think it was a duplicate of Time Stands Still, but for an 8th-level character. It's definitely a one-shot trick, but it's still decent for an 8th-level character, it seems to me. Both the 8th-level Factotum and the 8th-level Fighter will get 2 attacks in a full attack; being able to make one of those a True Strike the same round as you make the attack is pretty good, even though Power Attack is limited to +6. That was just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's other non-first level spell combos that would be far nastier, given that an 8th-level Factotum can cast 3rd level spells (phantasmal assailants, lightning bolt, grease and dispel magic all come to mind). In hindsight, however, I think it's the extra mobility that's more useful. Nothing like being able to advance your full move and take a full attack action (or vice-versa).
Marcus Majarra 03-27-07, 06:46 PM	In this aspect, it becomes a much more limited version of the Marshal's Grant Move Action. It's the more common use for this ability, as you'll generally want to be mobile early to limit your opponents' movement.
taski 03-28-07, 02:23 AM	The Factotom does not need to use Cunning Brilliance to get sneak attack. He has the 4th-level ability Cunning Strike, which allows him to spend 1 IP for 1d6 sneak attack. The ability does not specify that the factotum may spend multiple IP to gain multiple sneak attack dice. However, I would allow it, as 1d6 gets pretty useless at higher levels.
Mystyc 03-30-07, 03:26 AM	The ability does not specify that the factotum may spend multiple IP to gain multiple sneak attack dice. However, I would allow it, as 1d6 gets pretty useless at higher levels. Let's not kid around -- it's pretty useless even if you can spend multiple points. Also, how long does it take to summon an animal companion? Depending on location (middle of a city? elemental plane of earth?), there may be ad hoc limits on what is available to companionize.
tos_shai_hulud 04-01-07, 11:37 PM	According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#specialAbilities), "A special ability is either extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural in nature." So, if it is not spell-like or supernatural, it is extraordinary. Sneak-attack is not supernatural or spell-like, so would that automatically make it extraordinary?
BacchusG 04-01-07, 11:39 PM	You can't do the True Strike trick more than once per day as a pure factotum. They may only use there spell like ability on a particular prepared spell once per day and may only prepare a spell once. That means they can only prepare 1 true strike and only mimic true strike once.