Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MOD3004 05-31-07, 05:22 PM	Ok I've been wondering for a while what happens when you fail your will save against the illusion of a dragon breathing fire on you?
weasel0 05-31-07, 08:21 PM	You effectivly take full(depending on ref save) damage as if it really were a real dragon breathing fire on you. Subdual. Unless you want to really get down to the gritty and make it real dmg(so your brain itself is effectivly killing you because it thinks you are dead). Of course it, once you eventually figure it out, you'd suddenly go... "Hey waitaminute.... that wasn't hot! And... I'm not burnt! Why can I see through the dragon now?...."
Kouk 06-01-07, 01:42 AM	Ok I've been wondering for a while what happens when you fail your will save against the illusion of a dragon breathing fire on you? The sort of illusion is important. An image wouldn't actually do damage, but some illusion spells can do real damage.
Marcus Majarra 06-01-07, 12:50 PM	Ok I've been wondering for a while what happens when you fail your will save against the illusion of a dragon breathing fire on you? This depends on the kind of illusion spell used. Most illusions that deal damage usually belong to the shadow or phantasm subschool. The spell's entry will indicate whether the spell can deal damage or not. If an illusion spell that mimics the appearance of a dragon breathing fire doesn't deal damage, then the dragon's breath will feel quite harmless.
Murrdox 06-01-07, 05:00 PM	Exactly - completely dependent on the type of spell used to cast the illusion. It would have to be a Shadow or a Phantasm to deal any kind of damage. A "Major Image", for example, would never in any way be able to harm you. You could have the illusion breath fire, and if the character failed his WILL save against the illusion, he would just be under the impression that he miraculously escaped being burned. You could interpret something like that as "Incontrovertible Proof" of the illusion, and thus that the character automatically passed his WILL save to disbelieve the illusion. It's a bit open to interpretation though.
Neutronium_Dragon 06-02-07, 12:28 AM	In general... An Illusion (Shadow) spell could deal real damage if the victim failed its save (and might deal some real damage even if the save was successful), but how much would depend on the spell itself. An Illusion (Phantasm) or Illusion (Pattern) spell could cause the victim to think it took damage and behave appropriately if the spell itself allows for that, but at most the damage is nonlethal unless the spell explicitly states otherwise. An Illusion (Figment) or Illusion (Glamer) spell can't cause any damage, lethal or nonlethal, in the subject, but generally wouldn't involve a saving throw anyway (and would almost certainly have just proven its falsehood to the intended victim).
KendallDM 06-02-07, 12:55 AM	Right, unless they are shadow or phantasm spells, they don't do any damage. The important thing to remember, is that illusion is meant to deceive, and not to be a source of damage. Therefore, the various image spells are better used to an effect that characters will likely ignore, overlook, or get delayed by, and as such, shouldn't interact with the characters. Leave it up to the characters to interact with it. At least for figments.
Neutronium_Dragon 06-02-07, 02:08 AM	Patterns (which I listed above) are also capable of causing damage in theory, since they're [mind-affecting] and could be set up to actually harm the target in the same way that phantasms do. (The difference being that a pattern is actually a visible presence rather than in the minds of its victims.) It might be a bit unusual since the general style of patterns is to mess with people's thinking rather than to directly harm them, but I suppose that some visible effect which "should not be" could cause actual damage of some sort (though probably Int/Wis/Cha damage rather than HPs).
Splendide 06-02-07, 02:27 AM	An Illusion (Figment) or Illusion (Glamer) spell can't cause any damage, lethal or nonlethal, in the subject, but generally wouldn't involve a saving throw anyway (and would almost certainly have just proven its falsehood to the intended victim).It'd be a great way to make someone overconfident though. Spend time telling tales of his destiny, and set up little things to make him believe it...then the final card would be the Major Image of red dragonbreath, which he miraculously survives.....as if he wouldn't believe he's the chosen one!
Mystic Lemur 06-04-07, 12:58 AM	Ok I've been wondering for a while what happens when you fail your will save against the illusion of a dragon breathing fire on you? You pee on yourself and run away? Maybe you take a little damage if it's the right kind of spell, and then you pee on yourself and run away? If it's a high enough level illusion, you actually feel the heat brushing the back of your neck as you run away, peeing on yourself. I think it's time I go to bed...
goawayugh 06-04-07, 10:01 AM	Like everyone else has said, it depends on the illusion spell being used. If it were an image spell, I would say that that is proof that it is an illusion and he automatically saves.