Fire and Cold Damage in a single spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fire and Cold Damage in a single spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dragom
06-28-07, 10:40 PM Now somewhere I absorbed a rule about Fire and Cold Damage negating each other. In a "I prepare an action to cast Fire Ball on myself and the surounding party when the White Dragon breaths" point for point kind of way.

No, I don't know where this rule is. It could be Tome and Blood, the 3.0 DMG or it could be current.

So if this is true how exactly does the Rainbow Blast spell or the Rainbow Beam spell (if a multi-hue fire and cold beam occured) really work?

Or is this just an outdated or phantom rule?
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-28-07, 11:15 PM Totally a house rule. There are a few spells (heat metal and chill metal) that do this, but they specifically state it. As a DM, I would say that throwing a fireball down its craw is perfectly acceptable (and darn creative).

I inform my players that the lists of actions in the PHB aren't comprehensive. Thus, if a player wants to stab an orc in the eye and use his still-standing corpse to vault over five more orcs, I allow it. But only if he succeeds on the proper skill checks (and I can just keep adding them to make it as impossible as I want to). This is one of those situations where, as a DM, you have to balance letting the PCs do something cool with letting the PCs do it every time they're in the situation.

I'd say it's a fair way to disable the dragon's breath weapon, but it requires you to forfeit your saving throw. If the mage makes a successful attack roll to hit the dragon's mouth (a touch attack against the dragon, but with the benefits of it being four size categories smaller and the +2/-2 rule applies because it's a moving target and an improper usage of the spell, so -4 on top of that), the dragon needs to make three Fortitude saves against the spell's save DC. If it fails one, its breath weapon is disabled for a minute. If it fails two, its breath weapon is disabled for an hour. If it fails three, it's a permanent injury to the dragon.

But if he drops the fireball on himself? He's an idiot, inform him that it won't work, and let him kill himself if he insists.
TwiddleStootch
06-29-07, 12:06 AM I agree with the above, But I would also say that it would be ok to ready an action to cast eh fireball to intercept the breath weapon. I would say the half of the fireball facing away from the dragon would effect anyone in the area normally, while the other half would intercept the breath weapon.

My ruling would be that the damage of the breath weapon would be reduced by the amount rolled for the fireball, any damage rolled in excess would be dealt to anyone in the half of the fireball's area nearest the dragon, possibly the dragon its self.
Coldkilla
06-29-07, 10:49 AM It doesn't make sense for them to cancel each other out. It's pretty easy to freeze and burn something at the same time, e.g. standing in -40 degree blizzard conditions while having a flamethrower trained on you.
Drakken2672
06-29-07, 02:31 PM I agree that this idea of letting a mage do this is super cool and unique. HOWEVER, by the time you run into a dragon that is formidible enough for this situation to really be an issue. The mages ranged attack bonus to hit the dragons massive touch ac of 9 (13 with the minus 4) makes it just a little too easy to have the players expect to be able to do this all the time, and have them start prepping energy substituted spells just for these dragon situations. I would have to lean more towards not allowing such things as it seems to fall into a more obsolete view of the game when called shots actually meant something.
Phrennzy
06-29-07, 03:58 PM "I prepare an action to cast Fire Ball on myself and the surounding party when the White Dragon breaths"

My head just exploded.
Dragom
06-29-07, 04:23 PM Maybe it is just a thing I picked up reading Heat and Chill Metal...

Though it would be kind of cool to counter a White Dragons breath weapon with simultanious application of fire...

Still I can see how it could be kind of silly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragom 06-28-07, 10:40 PM	Now somewhere I absorbed a rule about Fire and Cold Damage negating each other. In a "I prepare an action to cast Fire Ball on myself and the surounding party when the White Dragon breaths" point for point kind of way. No, I don't know where this rule is. It could be Tome and Blood, the 3.0 DMG or it could be current. So if this is true how exactly does the Rainbow Blast spell or the Rainbow Beam spell (if a multi-hue fire and cold beam occured) really work? Or is this just an outdated or phantom rule?
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-28-07, 11:15 PM	Totally a house rule. There are a few spells (heat metal and chill metal) that do this, but they specifically state it. As a DM, I would say that throwing a fireball down its craw is perfectly acceptable (and darn creative). I inform my players that the lists of actions in the PHB aren't comprehensive. Thus, if a player wants to stab an orc in the eye and use his still-standing corpse to vault over five more orcs, I allow it. But only if he succeeds on the proper skill checks (and I can just keep adding them to make it as impossible as I want to). This is one of those situations where, as a DM, you have to balance letting the PCs do something cool with letting the PCs do it every time they're in the situation. I'd say it's a fair way to disable the dragon's breath weapon, but it requires you to forfeit your saving throw. If the mage makes a successful attack roll to hit the dragon's mouth (a touch attack against the dragon, but with the benefits of it being four size categories smaller and the +2/-2 rule applies because it's a moving target and an improper usage of the spell, so -4 on top of that), the dragon needs to make three Fortitude saves against the spell's save DC. If it fails one, its breath weapon is disabled for a minute. If it fails two, its breath weapon is disabled for an hour. If it fails three, it's a permanent injury to the dragon. But if he drops the fireball on himself? He's an idiot, inform him that it won't work, and let him kill himself if he insists.
TwiddleStootch 06-29-07, 12:06 AM	I agree with the above, But I would also say that it would be ok to ready an action to cast eh fireball to intercept the breath weapon. I would say the half of the fireball facing away from the dragon would effect anyone in the area normally, while the other half would intercept the breath weapon. My ruling would be that the damage of the breath weapon would be reduced by the amount rolled for the fireball, any damage rolled in excess would be dealt to anyone in the half of the fireball's area nearest the dragon, possibly the dragon its self.
Coldkilla 06-29-07, 10:49 AM	It doesn't make sense for them to cancel each other out. It's pretty easy to freeze and burn something at the same time, e.g. standing in -40 degree blizzard conditions while having a flamethrower trained on you.
Drakken2672 06-29-07, 02:31 PM	I agree that this idea of letting a mage do this is super cool and unique. HOWEVER, by the time you run into a dragon that is formidible enough for this situation to really be an issue. The mages ranged attack bonus to hit the dragons massive touch ac of 9 (13 with the minus 4) makes it just a little too easy to have the players expect to be able to do this all the time, and have them start prepping energy substituted spells just for these dragon situations. I would have to lean more towards not allowing such things as it seems to fall into a more obsolete view of the game when called shots actually meant something.
Phrennzy 06-29-07, 03:58 PM	"I prepare an action to cast Fire Ball on myself and the surounding party when the White Dragon breaths" My head just exploded.
Dragom 06-29-07, 04:23 PM	Maybe it is just a thing I picked up reading Heat and Chill Metal... Though it would be kind of cool to counter a White Dragons breath weapon with simultanious application of fire... Still I can see how it could be kind of silly.