Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tricky_bob 06-22-07, 11:25 AM	I know this has been covered many times, and by RAW you can only use Sneak Attack in the first (surprise) round of combat when your target is flat-footed (or denied his DEX modifier). However, I have just purchased the Adventure Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave ...NO SPOILER... In one of the tactical encounters an Archer placed on a building roof does the following, and I quote.. "She uses hit-and-run tactics, attacking and moving out of view only to sneak up and attack again from a different spot so that she can use sneak attacks" This to me clarifies, where the RAW clearly does not, that you can use Sneak Attack multiple times as long as your target is unaware of your position EVEN if they know you are on the roof of a building and have already been shot at, as long as you move to a different position you can again use Sneak Attack. This does require some common sense however as I don't think disappearing and then re-appearing one 5ft. space either side would allow this extra use of Sneak Attack, although you could choose to rule that it does. I think the new position needs to be significantly different to be able to argue that your target is flat-footed (unaware) to your attack.
Marcus Majarra 06-22-07, 12:33 PM	Bob, you also deal sneak attack damage when flanking. Only sudden strike applies only when an opponent is denied his Dex bonus to AC.
mvincent 06-22-07, 01:07 PM	This does require some common sense however as I don't think disappearing and then re-appearing one 5ft. space either side would allow this extra use of Sneak AttackBy the rules it's allowed: 1) If you move out of sight, you can hide 2) If you are hidden, you can move and remain hidden as long as you have some sort of cover or concealment 3) If you attack while hidden, your target loses their dex to your first shot (allowing for a sneak attack) The above tactic is fairly common for both PC's and their opponents
tricky_bob 06-22-07, 01:09 PM	Bob, you also deal sneak attack damage when flanking. Only sudden strike applies only when an opponent is denied his Dex bonus to AC. Yeah, sorry, I was just talking about the example with a ranged (bow) attack.
Merestil Haye 06-22-07, 02:59 PM	What the archer is doing is not making the characters flat-footed. The archer is denying the characters their Dex bonus to AC by attacking from concealment. Consider the case of two creatures in melee. One is under the Greater Invisibility spell. If the other has no means to see invisible attackers or defence against invisible attackers then the invisible creature denies their enemy any Dex bonus to AC even if the enemy knows exactly what square the attacker is in. Why is this any different from the sniper who is firing, moving out of sight and returning?
tricky_bob 06-22-07, 05:42 PM	What the archer is doing is not making the characters flat-footed. The archer is denying the characters their Dex bonus to AC by attacking from concealment. Consider the case of two creatures in melee. One is under the Greater Invisibility spell. If the other has no means to see invisible attackers or defence against invisible attackers then the invisible creature denies their enemy any Dex bonus to AC even if the enemy knows exactly what square the attacker is in. Why is this any different from the sniper who is firing, moving out of sight and returning? Sure, I agree. It's just that there seems to me to be a lot of people that don't use this ruling. RAW doesn't give this example and implies that once you've acted, you are no longer Sneak-able by ranged attacks. Personally as a DM, I will judge each case as it comes up and decide based on its own set of circumstances.
Some_call_me_Tim 06-24-07, 05:57 PM	Sure, I agree. It's just that there seems to me to be a lot of people that don't use this ruling. RAW doesn't give this example and implies that once you've acted, you are no longer Sneak-able by ranged attacks. There are a lot of people confused by this, but the rules are concise. You can sneak attack when: the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the rogue flanks the target The big misconception comes from mistaking "flat-footed" for "denied a Dexterity bonus to AC." They are NOT one and the same. "Flat-footed" results in being "denied a Dexterity bonus to AC" but it is certainly not the only method for doing so. successful feint blinded grappling stunned invisible attacker cowering helpless pinned climbing flat-footed Through an odd quirk in the rules, balancing makes you "flat-footed" rather than "denied a Dexterity bonus to AC" which means uncanny dodge can apply, but normally balancing makes you vulnerable as well. All of the above make a target sneak-attackable (and should suggest some fun tactics).:plotting:
Nom 06-24-07, 09:41 PM	I agree with everything Tim said (except that he should have said "well defined" rather than "concise" :D ), but will add a note about Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Uncanny Dodge prevents loss of Dex to AC by allowing you "to react to danger before you could normally do so". If you lose Dex to AC due to unawareness, UD will prevent it. This includes blinded, invisible or unseen attackers, or flat-footed. If you lose Dex to AC because you're feinted or physically incapable of defending yourself, UD won't help. Uncanny Dodge has a unique feature - if you gain it twice you automatically gain Improved Uncanny Dodge in place of the second Uncanny Dodge. I'm not aware of any other feat or ability that upgrades in this manner. Improved Uncanny Dodge provides immunity to flanking. This immunity is unconditional except if the attacker has at least 4 more levels in rogue than you do in classes granting Uncanny Dodge. Only the Improved version is negated in this manner. A level 2 barbarian retains Dex to AC even when suprised by a level 20 rogue (Uncanny Dodge still applies), but that level 20 rogue can flank him (Improved Uncanny Dodge is negated).