Flat Footed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flat Footed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
McNormalGuy
04-28-08, 12:51 AM Simple question regarding the idea of being flat footed, mainly for the rogue's sneak attack. If a rogue was sneaking around the edge of a room (hide vs spot checks are successful) and jumped out to stab one of the orcs the rest of the party is righting, would the target be flat footed? Argument for is that the target is already in battle there for ready for attacks, argument against is that the target was unprepared for an attack from that person, for target had no idea about rogue's existance. I am personaly unbiased since I'm the wizard player in the party, and am only going on to post this because the DM's computer is down for a while.

past midnight so I apologize for spelling errurs,
McNormalGuy
tos_shai_hulud
04-28-08, 01:14 AM Flat-Footed

A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

If the character has already acted, he is not flat-footed. However, if we look at the combat modifiers located here: Combat Modifiers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm)

We see that if the attacker is invisible (as is the case when he was hiding and makes an attack), he receives a +2 on the attack roll and the defender is denied his dexterity bonus, but the defender is not "flat-footed". This still activates the rogue's sneak attack because sneak attack does not look to see if the defender is flat-footed. Sneak attack looks only for if the defender is denied his dexterity bonus to armor class.
Salla
04-28-08, 01:22 AM You want to look at 'Sniping' under the Hide skill description. Trust me, it's handy. :)
Kragg Bonemeal
04-28-08, 01:08 PM See also my replies in "Sniping in Melee" thread here too. He needs to sneak up to the orc, and stay hidden while making his attack so that the orc doesn't react to it... penalties for this.

Or... do as Salla said and shoot from hiding. First shot is free... throw a dagger.
mvincent
04-28-08, 01:28 PM If the character has already acted, he is not flat-footed. However, if we look at the combat modifiers located here: Combat Modifiers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm)

We see that if the attacker is invisible (as is the case when he was hiding and makes an attack), he receives a +2 on the attack roll and the defender is denied his dexterity bonus, but the defender is not "flat-footed".Heh... they are now. The Rules Compendium uses the term "flat footed" when referring to being attacked by an invisible attacker .

Prior to this, many D&D writers would mistakenly use the term "flat-footed" when they meant "denied dex" (likely because you use your flat-footed AC anytime you are denied dex). No biggie.

However, WotC has stated that the Rules Compendium (which is rife with other mistakes) has primacy over all of the core rules. So now one is officially 'flat-footed' when attacked by an invisible attacker.
:eek:
Zuggster
04-28-08, 04:40 PM Prior to this, many D&D writers would mistakenly use the term "flat-footed" when they meant "denied dex" (likely because you use your flat-footed AC anytime you are denied dex). No biggie.

Most character sheets, when they break out AC, have Total "AC", "Touch AC", "Flat Footed AC" which just adds to the confusion.
mvincent
04-28-08, 04:46 PM Most character sheets, when they break out AC, have Total "AC", "Touch AC", "Flat Footed AC" which just adds to the confusion.Actually, this is the standard for creature stats in the MM's.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McNormalGuy 04-28-08, 12:51 AM	Simple question regarding the idea of being flat footed, mainly for the rogue's sneak attack. If a rogue was sneaking around the edge of a room (hide vs spot checks are successful) and jumped out to stab one of the orcs the rest of the party is righting, would the target be flat footed? Argument for is that the target is already in battle there for ready for attacks, argument against is that the target was unprepared for an attack from that person, for target had no idea about rogue's existance. I am personaly unbiased since I'm the wizard player in the party, and am only going on to post this because the DM's computer is down for a while. past midnight so I apologize for spelling errurs, McNormalGuy
tos_shai_hulud 04-28-08, 01:14 AM	Flat-Footed A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity. If the character has already acted, he is not flat-footed. However, if we look at the combat modifiers located here: Combat Modifiers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm) We see that if the attacker is invisible (as is the case when he was hiding and makes an attack), he receives a +2 on the attack roll and the defender is denied his dexterity bonus, but the defender is not "flat-footed". This still activates the rogue's sneak attack because sneak attack does not look to see if the defender is flat-footed. Sneak attack looks only for if the defender is denied his dexterity bonus to armor class.
Salla 04-28-08, 01:22 AM	You want to look at 'Sniping' under the Hide skill description. Trust me, it's handy. :)
Kragg Bonemeal 04-28-08, 01:08 PM	See also my replies in "Sniping in Melee" thread here too. He needs to sneak up to the orc, and stay hidden while making his attack so that the orc doesn't react to it... penalties for this. Or... do as Salla said and shoot from hiding. First shot is free... throw a dagger.
mvincent 04-28-08, 01:28 PM	If the character has already acted, he is not flat-footed. However, if we look at the combat modifiers located here: Combat Modifiers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm) We see that if the attacker is invisible (as is the case when he was hiding and makes an attack), he receives a +2 on the attack roll and the defender is denied his dexterity bonus, but the defender is not "flat-footed".Heh... they are now. The Rules Compendium uses the term "flat footed" when referring to being attacked by an invisible attacker . Prior to this, many D&D writers would mistakenly use the term "flat-footed" when they meant "denied dex" (likely because you use your flat-footed AC anytime you are denied dex). No biggie. However, WotC has stated that the Rules Compendium (which is rife with other mistakes) has primacy over all of the core rules. So now one is officially 'flat-footed' when attacked by an invisible attacker. :eek:
Zuggster 04-28-08, 04:40 PM	Prior to this, many D&D writers would mistakenly use the term "flat-footed" when they meant "denied dex" (likely because you use your flat-footed AC anytime you are denied dex). No biggie. Most character sheets, when they break out AC, have Total "AC", "Touch AC", "Flat Footed AC" which just adds to the confusion.
mvincent 04-28-08, 04:46 PM	Most character sheets, when they break out AC, have Total "AC", "Touch AC", "Flat Footed AC" which just adds to the confusion.Actually, this is the standard for creature stats in the MM's.