Friendly ranged Touch [Archive] - Wizards Community

Friendly ranged Touch [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DMMcSmartypants
08-15-07, 04:45 PM So say a character takes the metamagic feat which allows him to turn touch spells into ranged touch spells(I can't think of the name and don't have my CA with me). Now say that characters want to use the spells with something beneficial and target his party, like cure spells, bull's strength etc. Assuming the target wants to get hit, how would you adjudicate the ac? Obviously it normally ignores armor and shield but shouldn't a dex bonus work for you not against you in this situation? I mean you don't want to dodge the healing magics, in fact once enemies see it they might try to jump in the way.

Anyway glad to here opinions or find out if this has been covered somewhere already.
Salla
08-15-07, 05:02 PM I'm not sure if it's covered somewhere, but since the target doesn't want to avoid it, I'd just let you hit automatically just like a normal melee buff.
Anathema
08-15-07, 05:51 PM Yea, as long as they're 'willing targets' then I would say no roll is needed. This would be particularly useful for teleport as an escape option, now that I think about it.

(The feat is Reach Spell, Complete Divine pg84)
Madsamurai
08-15-07, 06:22 PM I would rule that the defender can choose to forgoe his dodge and Dex bonuses. Additionally, since the character is activly trying to be hit, you could treat his dex as 0 for that attack.

So the ranged touch AC is 10 - 5 (dex) + deflection + cover + unnamed
MarkB
08-15-07, 06:48 PM I'd rule it as "just don't roll a 1."
Kouk
08-15-07, 08:23 PM I would rule that the defender can choose to forgoe his dodge and Dex bonuses. Additionally, since the character is activly trying to be hit, you could treat his dex as 0 for that attack.

So the ranged touch AC is 10 - 5 (dex) + deflection + cover + unnamed

I have seen this ruling, and some others.

1: One train of thought is that your target can't just "lower his defenses" to any old ranged attack that comes his way, so you have to hit his full normal Touch AC.

2: Another is that the target can choose to not "actively avoid" the beneficial spell, but he can't reduce his Touch AC below 10, because it would be too tough to try and jump into the way of a specific Ray coming at you while not lowering your defenses to everything else (or provoking an AoO). Deflection bonuses can't tell the difference, so they still apply. Size modifiers also still apply, there's nothing you can do about that short of changing your size.

You can't "jump into" the beneficial Ray any more than you can "jump out of" the path of an enemy Ray or Arrow - this is just a function of the AC system.

3: Another is sort of a combination with the second, you can lower your AC by "standing still", which will treat your DEX as zero, giving a -5 Dex penalty to AC. This is a Standard action that provokes an AoO. Most characters will have a Touch AC of 5 + Deflection bonuses. Pretty easy to hit a stationary target, both for the caster of the spell, and for anyone else that tries to attack you - so don't use it in melee if you can help it.

I use #2 and #3 in the games I DM, and it is pretty much the conclusion my players came to in their own discussions on the subject when someone tried to heal with a Reach spell.

Here are some things to keep in mind: Touching an ally with a beneficial spell is not normally an attack roll of any sort. Touching a friendly character is a Standard action, you can find this in the 'Holding the Charge' section in the Combat chapter: "You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action." As part of the casting of most spells though, you get a "free" Touch against an ally "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."

If you want to extend the "free" Touch to work on Ranged spells, that is up to you, but I think it is a bit of a balancing factor for allowing Touch spells to be fired at range to make some sort of attack roll.

In many cases, making an attack roll to hit your friend with a beneficial Ray is unavoidable, even if you go with the "free" touch to a friend. Things such as Cover, and Firing into Melee would still apply, so you will be rolling no matter what (unless your attack bonus is high enough to warrant not even rolling).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMMcSmartypants 08-15-07, 04:45 PM	So say a character takes the metamagic feat which allows him to turn touch spells into ranged touch spells(I can't think of the name and don't have my CA with me). Now say that characters want to use the spells with something beneficial and target his party, like cure spells, bull's strength etc. Assuming the target wants to get hit, how would you adjudicate the ac? Obviously it normally ignores armor and shield but shouldn't a dex bonus work for you not against you in this situation? I mean you don't want to dodge the healing magics, in fact once enemies see it they might try to jump in the way. Anyway glad to here opinions or find out if this has been covered somewhere already.
Salla 08-15-07, 05:02 PM	I'm not sure if it's covered somewhere, but since the target doesn't want to avoid it, I'd just let you hit automatically just like a normal melee buff.
Anathema 08-15-07, 05:51 PM	Yea, as long as they're 'willing targets' then I would say no roll is needed. This would be particularly useful for teleport as an escape option, now that I think about it. (The feat is Reach Spell, Complete Divine pg84)
Madsamurai 08-15-07, 06:22 PM	I would rule that the defender can choose to forgoe his dodge and Dex bonuses. Additionally, since the character is activly trying to be hit, you could treat his dex as 0 for that attack. So the ranged touch AC is 10 - 5 (dex) + deflection + cover + unnamed
MarkB 08-15-07, 06:48 PM	I'd rule it as "just don't roll a 1."
Kouk 08-15-07, 08:23 PM	I would rule that the defender can choose to forgoe his dodge and Dex bonuses. Additionally, since the character is activly trying to be hit, you could treat his dex as 0 for that attack. So the ranged touch AC is 10 - 5 (dex) + deflection + cover + unnamed I have seen this ruling, and some others. 1: One train of thought is that your target can't just "lower his defenses" to any old ranged attack that comes his way, so you have to hit his full normal Touch AC. 2: Another is that the target can choose to not "actively avoid" the beneficial spell, but he can't reduce his Touch AC below 10, because it would be too tough to try and jump into the way of a specific Ray coming at you while not lowering your defenses to everything else (or provoking an AoO). Deflection bonuses can't tell the difference, so they still apply. Size modifiers also still apply, there's nothing you can do about that short of changing your size. You can't "jump into" the beneficial Ray any more than you can "jump out of" the path of an enemy Ray or Arrow - this is just a function of the AC system. 3: Another is sort of a combination with the second, you can lower your AC by "standing still", which will treat your DEX as zero, giving a -5 Dex penalty to AC. This is a Standard action that provokes an AoO. Most characters will have a Touch AC of 5 + Deflection bonuses. Pretty easy to hit a stationary target, both for the caster of the spell, and for anyone else that tries to attack you - so don't use it in melee if you can help it. I use #2 and #3 in the games I DM, and it is pretty much the conclusion my players came to in their own discussions on the subject when someone tried to heal with a Reach spell. Here are some things to keep in mind: Touching an ally with a beneficial spell is not normally an attack roll of any sort. Touching a friendly character is a Standard action, you can find this in the 'Holding the Charge' section in the Combat chapter: "You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action." As part of the casting of most spells though, you get a "free" Touch against an ally "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll." If you want to extend the "free" Touch to work on Ranged spells, that is up to you, but I think it is a bit of a balancing factor for allowing Touch spells to be fired at range to make some sort of attack roll. In many cases, making an attack roll to hit your friend with a beneficial Ray is unavoidable, even if you go with the "free" touch to a friend. Things such as Cover, and Firing into Melee would still apply, so you will be rolling no matter what (unless your attack bonus is high enough to warrant not even rolling).