Full round casting, split over 2 rounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Full round casting, split over 2 rounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fitz10019
04-09-07, 09:37 PM I've seen DMs allow spells that require "1 round" to be split over two rounds. For example:
Round 1: Move 10', start full-round of casting
Round 2: Finish full-round casting, Move 15'

The before and after activities are limited to movement or move-actions, never standard actions. Is this a house rule, or is it documented somewhere?
Kazgoth
04-09-07, 10:17 PM I don't have the extensive knowledge of 3.x rules the people here have, but if this isn't a rule already I would still allow it. However, if the caster takes damage between the end of his turn and the start of his next turn, he would need to make a (possibly really high) concentration check, and you can be sure any NPC who is smart enough to notice will be piling on damage to make that check hard as possible. Also, you might just rule the spell is lost if the caster was tripped, and certainly the spell would be lost if the caster was stunned. Without knowing why your caster needs to split his casting time in this way, it seems to me that there is a lot more risk casting this way than just moving one round then casting the next, especially since the spell's effect would be seen at about the same time anyway, but since it is such a risk I would houserule it ok if it's not already.
Drodain
04-09-07, 10:27 PM I don't think it is written in the rules anywhere. It complicates the rules and DnD is all about simplicity. Rounds are abstract anyways so I'm not sure you could really do that however if a character really felt the need to do it I would probably allow it using what the above poster said, although I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to abuse that ruling. So if one of my players decided to I'd just stop allowing it.
Neutronium_Dragon
04-09-07, 10:45 PM It actually is buried in the rules somewhere. You can begin a full round action with a standard action on one round, and finish it with another standard action in the next round. This is generally undesirable in that you're subject to being disrupted in the round between your turns, but it's doable.
Merestil Haye
04-09-07, 10:50 PM It's a standard action, listed with other standard actions, called "Start / Complete Full-round Action."

This explains why you are only allowed move actions in each round; because you used the standard action.
Inigo Carmine
04-09-07, 10:51 PM Neutronium: That's entirely correct, but note he's talking about "1 round" spellcasting times, not a fullround action. The rules are silent on such an issue, leading me to believe that it is not intended by the rules. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with allowing it as a houserule though.
SALDAR
04-09-07, 11:11 PM Inigo Carmine, a spell with a casting time of "1 round" takes a full round action to cast. This rule allows you to start and finish a full round action over 2 rounds so no houserule is needed.
Kouk
04-09-07, 11:36 PM I allow it, as noted it can certainly be more dangerous to cast the spell that way especially if not done defensively.

The initiative system is an abstraction of everything that is happening simultaneously, so it shouldn't really matter carrying on one round to the next because you aren't "really" stopping everything when your round is done.
meabolex
04-10-07, 12:29 PM I've seen DMs allow spells that require "1 round" to be split over two rounds. For example:
Round 1: Move 10', start full-round of casting
Round 2: Finish full-round casting, Move 15'

The before and after activities are limited to movement or move-actions, never standard actions. Is this a house rule, or is it documented somewhere?

From the 3.5 FAQ
A sorcerer needs at least a full-round action to cast any
spell modified by a metamagic feat. Does this means the
spell takes effect in the following round, or does it go off at
the end of the round in which it is cast?
Despite the similarity in wording, a spell that requires a
“full-round action” to cast (such as that required by a
metamagic-affected sorcerer spell) isn’t the same as a spell
with a “1-round casting time” (such as that of a summon
monster spell). The former takes your entire turn to complete,
while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time
between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn.
A full-round action, such as the run action or the withdraw
action, requires an entire round to complete but ends on the
same turn that it began (although you can split it between two
consecutive turns, as described under the “Start/Complete Full-
Round Action” entry on page 142 in the Player’s Handbook).
Thus, a spell that requires a full-round action to cast is
completed at the end of the caster’s turn.

So you cannot split "1-round casting time" spells, but you can split full-round action spells like applying metamagic feats to sorcerer spells.
goawayugh
04-10-07, 03:33 PM Casting Time
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action
Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action.

Yes, a full-round casting time is different than a 1 round casting time. But a 1 round casting time still uses the full-round action to cast.
Nom
04-11-07, 02:55 AM So you cannot split "1-round casting time" spells, but you can split full-round action spells like applying metamagic feats to sorcerer spells.Why not? You begin your 1 round action, continue it over the intervening time, and finish it with a standard action on the next turn. They happen to be functionally identical in this border case.
meabolex
04-11-07, 03:21 PM The full text from the SRD is:

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

Why not? You begin your 1 round action, continue it over the intervening time, and finish it with a standard action on the next turn. They happen to be functionally identical in this border case.

I'm just pointing out that the FAQ differentiates the 1-round casting time from a full-round action that can be split between rounds.

From the 3.5 FAQ
The former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn.

In this case, the former is a full-round action and the latter is the "1-round casting time" - thus:

Full round action = time within one turn. Done when your turn is done.

1-round casting time = time within one turn + time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. In other words, not done when your turn is done.

The problem is representing the duration between your turn and the next, which is a stated requirement of a 1-round casting time. How can you represent the added requirement that the action continues until the beginning of your next turn when the action already spans across turns? It's basically like shifting a 1-round casting time to a full-round action and ignoring the second part of its description.
Marcus Majarra
04-11-07, 03:47 PM This shouldn't be a problem. Starting and ending a full-round action over two turns already takes up more time than doing so in a single turn:

1. You end up using two standard actions instead of one move and one standard action
2. You end up using the time between your turns as well, allowing an opponent to interrupt your action without readying to do so

In any case, 1 round casting times split over two rounds isn't more effective in terms of time investments since you'll be wasting another standard action in lieu of a move action.
meabolex
04-11-07, 04:04 PM In any case, 1 round casting times split over two rounds isn't more effective in terms of time investments since you'll be wasting another standard action in lieu of a move action.

Counterexample:

Ogre in full plate mail with only a greataxe teleports adjacent to me. I, for some inexplicable reason, want to cast summon monster VI as a half-elf bard. Let's also assume I have boots of haste and choose to haste myself for the next round.

If I could split the 1-round casting time between rounds, I could tumble 60 ft. away (assuming my tumble check is very high and roll well above the DC + 10) and begin casting the summon spell. The ogre can only reach me by using a run action since I'm beyond his charge range - so I can get the spell off without a hitch (unless he throws his axe at me or invokes some other feat/rule to close the distance, which is irrelevant). However, I've conveniently pushed aside the fact that the "one round spell" is more than just a full-round action. It's also the time between turns.

Applying metamagic feats is not as restricted. I could split a heightened confusion and stay out of his grasp.

The argument that a one round casting time between rounds is fine and fair isn't what I'm saying - I agree, usually it wouldn't be an issue. But turning the 1-round casting time into "just" a full-round action doesn't sound right.
Marcus Majarra
04-11-07, 04:37 PM Except that it's not just a full-round action. When you split a full-round action, it no longer is a full-round action. It becomes two standard actions and the time between your turns. A 1 round casting time is essentially (and according to the FAQ) a full-round action and the time between your turns.

As a nitpicking point: an ogre in full plate has a land speed of 30 feet. He can charge 60 feet just fine.
Kursk
04-11-07, 04:48 PM I already allow it.

Would it make sense to tell a player that, "no you can't walk 10' and then start on a full round spell as the hand of God swoops down and smacks you up side the head." ?
meabolex
04-11-07, 05:03 PM Except that it's not just a full-round action. When you split a full-round action, it no longer is a full-round action. It becomes two standard actions and the time between your turns. A 1 round casting time is essentially (and according to the FAQ) a full-round action and the time between your turns.

But to split a full-round action, you need just a full-round action, not a full-round action and something else. In computer speak, the parameter types do not match (:

I'll concede that this whole thing is a nitpick and not significant, but it *might* be in a narrow case. Speaking of nitpicks. . .

As a nitpicking point: an ogre in full plate has a land speed of 30 feet. He can charge 60 feet just fine.

Blah, always something q: Fine, I have a level in barbarian, I have the dash feat, and a level in Sir Robin the Chicken prestige class that gives me 10 extra ft of movement as long as I say "run away!" when I'm moving.

Oh, and did I mention the terrain is poor to where charging is impossible? (:
SALDAR
04-17-07, 11:13 PM The FAQ entry actually states what 1 round is, although in a poorly stated manner. It states:

"The former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn."

The PHB on page 138 under The Combat Round states:
"For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. The word “round” works like the word “month.” A month can mean either a calendar month or a span of time from a day in one month to the same day in the next month. In the same way, a round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."

So "1 round" of time for a character starts on his initiative in the present round and continues until his initiative in the following round. That is why a 1 round spell is only 1 full round action, it takes only 1 round of time to complete, not more.
The_Ditto
04-18-07, 08:58 AM But to split a full-round action, you need just a full-round action, not a full-round action and something else. In computer speak, the parameter types do not match (:

I'll concede that this whole thing is a nitpick and not significant, but it *might* be in a narrow case. Speaking of nitpicks. . .

Blah, always something q: Fine, I have a level in barbarian, I have the dash feat, and a level in Sir Robin the Chicken prestige class that gives me 10 extra ft of movement as long as I say "run away!" when I'm moving.

Oh, and did I mention the terrain is poor to where charging is impossible? (:

There's an easier solution:

Just assume you have levels in psion and can manifest Dimension door as a move action ... there ... now you're 400+ ft away ... :tiphat:

In any case, I think we all know what you're getting at here, so hopefully the nitpicking is all in good fun ... :cheer:

To the question .. I think I agree that it's not a big deal most of the time ... I wasn't sure it was any different, but using up 2 standard actions over 2 rounds, rather than just a full round action looks like cost enough to allow it for a 1 round casting time ...

If you have the ability and resources to Tumble away that far, or dim door, etc, whatever ... than sure, expend the extra resources so you can cast your spell/manifest your power ... I think it's a tactical choice, and the rules/FAQ cover it fine ..

:tiphat:
meabolex
04-18-07, 12:07 PM That is why a 1 round spell is only 1 full round action, it takes only 1 round of time to complete, not more.

Your statement directly contradicts the statement from the FAQ:

The former [full-round action] takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter [one round casting time] takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn.

The PHB text quoted does not contradict the FAQ text because the FAQ is not talking about rounds. It's talking about the differences between "one-round" casting time and a full-round action.

In any case, I think we all know what you're getting at here, so hopefully the nitpicking is all in good fun ...

No, if you don't play it my way, all PCs take 100d100 damage and I bask in my DM victory.

I can't even remember where this was an issue in my gaming experience (: I'm just trying to figure out how I'd rule before the situation comes up.
SALDAR
04-18-07, 11:30 PM The PHB text quoted does not contradict the FAQ text because the FAQ is not talking about rounds. It's talking about the differences between "one-round" casting time and a full-round action.
Actually it is. From the PHB page 138 under Action Types:
"An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round)."

"Full Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round."

The PHB states on page 143 under the description of the Cast a Spell full round action and again on page 174 under Casting Time:
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action."

So there is no difference. A spell with a 1 round casting time is a full round action.
Merestil Haye
04-19-07, 04:45 AM Actually it is. From the PHB page 138 under Action Types:
"An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round)."

"Full Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round."

The PHB states on page 143 under the description of the Cast a Spell full round action and again on page 174 under Casting Time:
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action."

So there is no difference. A spell with a 1 round casting time is a full round action.They may take the same action, but they are not the same lengths of time.

The time taken to cast a spentaneous spell with metamagic applies is one full-round action.
The time taken to cast a Summon Monster * or equivalent spell is 1 full round.

The game designers have given these durations different names to show that they are different lengths of time. They even say so in the FAQ.Just when do so-called full-round actions take place? Does a sorcerer’s heightened spell (or any other spell with a metamagic feat applied) go off on the sorcerer’s turn, or not until just before the sorcerer’s action on the following turn? What about other full-round actions? The coup de grace has generated a lot of problems in our campaign. When is this action finished? If it’s not over until just before the attacker’s next action, can the target’s friends save her, perhaps by getting in the way or dragging her out of reach?

Any full-round action takes place entirely during the acting character’s turn. That is, the action begins and ends during the acting character’s turn in the initiative order. Though taking a full-round action leaves you no time to move (except, possibly, a 5-foot step) it does not continue into the next round in the same way a spell with a casting time of 1 round does. A full round action is quicker than a 1-round casting time.(Emphasis mine).

So there it is. These do things do not take the same time even though they use the same action, because one requires you to carry on until the beginning of your next turn and the other does not.
The_Ditto
04-19-07, 08:09 AM No, if you don't play it my way, all PCs take 100d100 damage and I bask in my DM victory.

I can't even remember where this was an issue in my gaming experience (: I'm just trying to figure out how I'd rule before the situation comes up.

Whew ... that was close ... glad I have 10001 hp ... I should be ok ... (the first time anyway .. and assuming no MetaDM feats applied ... :hides: )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fitz10019 04-09-07, 09:37 PM	I've seen DMs allow spells that require "1 round" to be split over two rounds. For example: Round 1: Move 10', start full-round of casting Round 2: Finish full-round casting, Move 15' The before and after activities are limited to movement or move-actions, never standard actions. Is this a house rule, or is it documented somewhere?
Kazgoth 04-09-07, 10:17 PM	I don't have the extensive knowledge of 3.x rules the people here have, but if this isn't a rule already I would still allow it. However, if the caster takes damage between the end of his turn and the start of his next turn, he would need to make a (possibly really high) concentration check, and you can be sure any NPC who is smart enough to notice will be piling on damage to make that check hard as possible. Also, you might just rule the spell is lost if the caster was tripped, and certainly the spell would be lost if the caster was stunned. Without knowing why your caster needs to split his casting time in this way, it seems to me that there is a lot more risk casting this way than just moving one round then casting the next, especially since the spell's effect would be seen at about the same time anyway, but since it is such a risk I would houserule it ok if it's not already.
Drodain 04-09-07, 10:27 PM	I don't think it is written in the rules anywhere. It complicates the rules and DnD is all about simplicity. Rounds are abstract anyways so I'm not sure you could really do that however if a character really felt the need to do it I would probably allow it using what the above poster said, although I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to abuse that ruling. So if one of my players decided to I'd just stop allowing it.
Neutronium_Dragon 04-09-07, 10:45 PM	It actually is buried in the rules somewhere. You can begin a full round action with a standard action on one round, and finish it with another standard action in the next round. This is generally undesirable in that you're subject to being disrupted in the round between your turns, but it's doable.
Merestil Haye 04-09-07, 10:50 PM	It's a standard action, listed with other standard actions, called "Start / Complete Full-round Action." This explains why you are only allowed move actions in each round; because you used the standard action.
Inigo Carmine 04-09-07, 10:51 PM	Neutronium: That's entirely correct, but note he's talking about "1 round" spellcasting times, not a fullround action. The rules are silent on such an issue, leading me to believe that it is not intended by the rules. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with allowing it as a houserule though.
SALDAR 04-09-07, 11:11 PM	Inigo Carmine, a spell with a casting time of "1 round" takes a full round action to cast. This rule allows you to start and finish a full round action over 2 rounds so no houserule is needed.
Kouk 04-09-07, 11:36 PM	I allow it, as noted it can certainly be more dangerous to cast the spell that way especially if not done defensively. The initiative system is an abstraction of everything that is happening simultaneously, so it shouldn't really matter carrying on one round to the next because you aren't "really" stopping everything when your round is done.
meabolex 04-10-07, 12:29 PM	I've seen DMs allow spells that require "1 round" to be split over two rounds. For example: Round 1: Move 10', start full-round of casting Round 2: Finish full-round casting, Move 15' The before and after activities are limited to movement or move-actions, never standard actions. Is this a house rule, or is it documented somewhere? From the 3.5 FAQ A sorcerer needs at least a full-round action to cast any spell modified by a metamagic feat. Does this means the spell takes effect in the following round, or does it go off at the end of the round in which it is cast? Despite the similarity in wording, a spell that requires a “full-round action” to cast (such as that required by a metamagic-affected sorcerer spell) isn’t the same as a spell with a “1-round casting time” (such as that of a summon monster spell). The former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. A full-round action, such as the run action or the withdraw action, requires an entire round to complete but ends on the same turn that it began (although you can split it between two consecutive turns, as described under the “Start/Complete Full- Round Action” entry on page 142 in the Player’s Handbook). Thus, a spell that requires a full-round action to cast is completed at the end of the caster’s turn. So you cannot split "1-round casting time" spells, but you can split full-round action spells like applying metamagic feats to sorcerer spells.
goawayugh 04-10-07, 03:33 PM	Casting Time A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action Start/Complete Full-Round Action The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. Yes, a full-round casting time is different than a 1 round casting time. But a 1 round casting time still uses the full-round action to cast.
Nom 04-11-07, 02:55 AM	So you cannot split "1-round casting time" spells, but you can split full-round action spells like applying metamagic feats to sorcerer spells.Why not? You begin your 1 round action, continue it over the intervening time, and finish it with a standard action on the next turn. They happen to be functionally identical in this border case.
meabolex 04-11-07, 03:21 PM	The full text from the SRD is: A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed. Why not? You begin your 1 round action, continue it over the intervening time, and finish it with a standard action on the next turn. They happen to be functionally identical in this border case. I'm just pointing out that the FAQ differentiates the 1-round casting time from a full-round action that can be split between rounds. From the 3.5 FAQ The former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. In this case, the former is a full-round action and the latter is the "1-round casting time" - thus: Full round action = time within one turn. Done when your turn is done. 1-round casting time = time within one turn + time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. In other words, not done when your turn is done. The problem is representing the duration between your turn and the next, which is a stated requirement of a 1-round casting time. How can you represent the added requirement that the action continues until the beginning of your next turn when the action already spans across turns? It's basically like shifting a 1-round casting time to a full-round action and ignoring the second part of its description.
Marcus Majarra 04-11-07, 03:47 PM	This shouldn't be a problem. Starting and ending a full-round action over two turns already takes up more time than doing so in a single turn: 1. You end up using two standard actions instead of one move and one standard action 2. You end up using the time between your turns as well, allowing an opponent to interrupt your action without readying to do so In any case, 1 round casting times split over two rounds isn't more effective in terms of time investments since you'll be wasting another standard action in lieu of a move action.
meabolex 04-11-07, 04:04 PM	In any case, 1 round casting times split over two rounds isn't more effective in terms of time investments since you'll be wasting another standard action in lieu of a move action. Counterexample: Ogre in full plate mail with only a greataxe teleports adjacent to me. I, for some inexplicable reason, want to cast summon monster VI as a half-elf bard. Let's also assume I have boots of haste and choose to haste myself for the next round. If I could split the 1-round casting time between rounds, I could tumble 60 ft. away (assuming my tumble check is very high and roll well above the DC + 10) and begin casting the summon spell. The ogre can only reach me by using a run action since I'm beyond his charge range - so I can get the spell off without a hitch (unless he throws his axe at me or invokes some other feat/rule to close the distance, which is irrelevant). However, I've conveniently pushed aside the fact that the "one round spell" is more than just a full-round action. It's also the time between turns. Applying metamagic feats is not as restricted. I could split a heightened confusion and stay out of his grasp. The argument that a one round casting time between rounds is fine and fair isn't what I'm saying - I agree, usually it wouldn't be an issue. But turning the 1-round casting time into "just" a full-round action doesn't sound right.
Marcus Majarra 04-11-07, 04:37 PM	Except that it's not just a full-round action. When you split a full-round action, it no longer is a full-round action. It becomes two standard actions and the time between your turns. A 1 round casting time is essentially (and according to the FAQ) a full-round action and the time between your turns. As a nitpicking point: an ogre in full plate has a land speed of 30 feet. He can charge 60 feet just fine.
Kursk 04-11-07, 04:48 PM	I already allow it. Would it make sense to tell a player that, "no you can't walk 10' and then start on a full round spell as the hand of God swoops down and smacks you up side the head." ?
meabolex 04-11-07, 05:03 PM	Except that it's not just a full-round action. When you split a full-round action, it no longer is a full-round action. It becomes two standard actions and the time between your turns. A 1 round casting time is essentially (and according to the FAQ) a full-round action and the time between your turns. But to split a full-round action, you need just a full-round action, not a full-round action and something else. In computer speak, the parameter types do not match (: I'll concede that this whole thing is a nitpick and not significant, but it might be in a narrow case. Speaking of nitpicks. . . As a nitpicking point: an ogre in full plate has a land speed of 30 feet. He can charge 60 feet just fine. Blah, always something q: Fine, I have a level in barbarian, I have the dash feat, and a level in Sir Robin the Chicken prestige class that gives me 10 extra ft of movement as long as I say "run away!" when I'm moving. Oh, and did I mention the terrain is poor to where charging is impossible? (:
SALDAR 04-17-07, 11:13 PM	The FAQ entry actually states what 1 round is, although in a poorly stated manner. It states: "The former takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn." The PHB on page 138 under The Combat Round states: "For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. The word “round” works like the word “month.” A month can mean either a calendar month or a span of time from a day in one month to the same day in the next month. In the same way, a round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on." So "1 round" of time for a character starts on his initiative in the present round and continues until his initiative in the following round. That is why a 1 round spell is only 1 full round action, it takes only 1 round of time to complete, not more.
The_Ditto 04-18-07, 08:58 AM	But to split a full-round action, you need just a full-round action, not a full-round action and something else. In computer speak, the parameter types do not match (: I'll concede that this whole thing is a nitpick and not significant, but it might be in a narrow case. Speaking of nitpicks. . . Blah, always something q: Fine, I have a level in barbarian, I have the dash feat, and a level in Sir Robin the Chicken prestige class that gives me 10 extra ft of movement as long as I say "run away!" when I'm moving. Oh, and did I mention the terrain is poor to where charging is impossible? (: There's an easier solution: Just assume you have levels in psion and can manifest Dimension door as a move action ... there ... now you're 400+ ft away ... :tiphat: In any case, I think we all know what you're getting at here, so hopefully the nitpicking is all in good fun ... :cheer: To the question .. I think I agree that it's not a big deal most of the time ... I wasn't sure it was any different, but using up 2 standard actions over 2 rounds, rather than just a full round action looks like cost enough to allow it for a 1 round casting time ... If you have the ability and resources to Tumble away that far, or dim door, etc, whatever ... than sure, expend the extra resources so you can cast your spell/manifest your power ... I think it's a tactical choice, and the rules/FAQ cover it fine .. :tiphat:
meabolex 04-18-07, 12:07 PM	That is why a 1 round spell is only 1 full round action, it takes only 1 round of time to complete, not more. Your statement directly contradicts the statement from the FAQ: The former [full-round action] takes your entire turn to complete, while the latter [one round casting time] takes your entire turn as well as the time between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. The PHB text quoted does not contradict the FAQ text because the FAQ is not talking about rounds. It's talking about the differences between "one-round" casting time and a full-round action. In any case, I think we all know what you're getting at here, so hopefully the nitpicking is all in good fun ... No, if you don't play it my way, all PCs take 100d100 damage and I bask in my DM victory. I can't even remember where this was an issue in my gaming experience (: I'm just trying to figure out how I'd rule before the situation comes up.
SALDAR 04-18-07, 11:30 PM	The PHB text quoted does not contradict the FAQ text because the FAQ is not talking about rounds. It's talking about the differences between "one-round" casting time and a full-round action. Actually it is. From the PHB page 138 under Action Types: "An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round)." "Full Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round." The PHB states on page 143 under the description of the Cast a Spell full round action and again on page 174 under Casting Time: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." So there is no difference. A spell with a 1 round casting time is a full round action.
Merestil Haye 04-19-07, 04:45 AM	Actually it is. From the PHB page 138 under Action Types: "An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round)." "Full Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round." The PHB states on page 143 under the description of the Cast a Spell full round action and again on page 174 under Casting Time: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." So there is no difference. A spell with a 1 round casting time is a full round action.They may take the same action, but they are not the same lengths of time. The time taken to cast a spentaneous spell with metamagic applies is one full-round action. The time taken to cast a Summon Monster * or equivalent spell is 1 full round. The game designers have given these durations different names to show that they are different lengths of time. They even say so in the FAQ.Just when do so-called full-round actions take place? Does a sorcerer’s heightened spell (or any other spell with a metamagic feat applied) go off on the sorcerer’s turn, or not until just before the sorcerer’s action on the following turn? What about other full-round actions? The coup de grace has generated a lot of problems in our campaign. When is this action finished? If it’s not over until just before the attacker’s next action, can the target’s friends save her, perhaps by getting in the way or dragging her out of reach? Any full-round action takes place entirely during the acting character’s turn. That is, the action begins and ends during the acting character’s turn in the initiative order. Though taking a full-round action leaves you no time to move (except, possibly, a 5-foot step) it does not continue into the next round in the same way a spell with a casting time of 1 round does. A full round action is quicker than a 1-round casting time.(Emphasis mine). So there it is. These do things do not take the same time even though they use the same action, because one requires you to carry on until the beginning of your next turn and the other does not.
The_Ditto 04-19-07, 08:09 AM	No, if you don't play it my way, all PCs take 100d100 damage and I bask in my DM victory. I can't even remember where this was an issue in my gaming experience (: I'm just trying to figure out how I'd rule before the situation comes up. Whew ... that was close ... glad I have 10001 hp ... I should be ok ... (the first time anyway .. and assuming no MetaDM feats applied ... :hides: )