Gaze Attacks and Swarms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gaze Attacks and Swarms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MrGrass
03-19-07, 06:40 PM I'm working up a big room of rats guarding a treasure for my PC's to enter. My idea is for there to be a few rat swarms and a monstrous dire rat. I want the big rat to have a petrifying gaze :bigeyes: but I'm not sure how a swarm would be effected by the gaze. As far as RAW goes, it seems like the swarms would be treated as averting their eyes so 50% chance of not needing to make the Fort save each turn. But if the swarm does fail a fort save then the entire swarm is petrified. That just doesn't feel right to me. I was thinking of maybe having swarms that fail take damage instead, ie some of the little rats turn to stone, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Any ideas?
MarkB
03-19-07, 07:27 PM Why do you think a swarm would be treated as averting its eyes? They don't know about the gaze attack, so they won't be deliberately looking away from the creature's gaze - and that's what averting your eyes requires.

Personally, I wouldn't mess with the RAW on this - swarms make or fail their saves as one creature.

Even if you go with your version, you need to provide a convincing reason why the little rats weren't petrified long before the PCs arrived there.
MrGrass
03-19-07, 08:08 PM The big rat is basically the king rat (think Nutcracker) so he'd have his gaze off when all his little rat minions are around.
primemover003
03-19-07, 09:24 PM Maybe you should use Bats instead of rats as they're "blind" and wouldn't be affected by the gaze (using blindsense)... sure it's not entirely accurate but it fits better!

What's the boss monster's Gaze attack do???
Dunamin
03-20-07, 09:33 AM Maybe you should use Bats instead of rats as they're "blind" and wouldn't be affected by the gaze (using blindsense)... sure it's not entirely accurate but it fits better!
Bats are not blind. On the contrary, their sight is pretty damn good!
For that matter, having the blindsense ability does not necessarily make a creature blind.
KingMarl
03-20-07, 10:33 AM Not sure what the dilemma here is. Simply define the rat swarm as being immune to the petrifying gaze as an extraordinary ability. Not like it's going to affect its CR any.

If you're looking for some actual, defined, in-game mechanic for this, just make them blind rats with blindsight. I'm just not sure why it's worth the effort.

********

By the way, the RAW specify that allies of a creature with a gaze attack are treated as having their eyes averted:

From the SRD: Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.
primemover003
03-20-07, 04:23 PM Bats are not blind. On the contrary, their sight is pretty damn good!
For that matter, having the blindsense ability does not necessarily make a creature blind.
I know they're not actually blind... but come on it fits the flavor of the encounter.

Again for the OP, what's the Gaze attack do?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MrGrass 03-19-07, 06:40 PM	I'm working up a big room of rats guarding a treasure for my PC's to enter. My idea is for there to be a few rat swarms and a monstrous dire rat. I want the big rat to have a petrifying gaze :bigeyes: but I'm not sure how a swarm would be effected by the gaze. As far as RAW goes, it seems like the swarms would be treated as averting their eyes so 50% chance of not needing to make the Fort save each turn. But if the swarm does fail a fort save then the entire swarm is petrified. That just doesn't feel right to me. I was thinking of maybe having swarms that fail take damage instead, ie some of the little rats turn to stone, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Any ideas?
MarkB 03-19-07, 07:27 PM	Why do you think a swarm would be treated as averting its eyes? They don't know about the gaze attack, so they won't be deliberately looking away from the creature's gaze - and that's what averting your eyes requires. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the RAW on this - swarms make or fail their saves as one creature. Even if you go with your version, you need to provide a convincing reason why the little rats weren't petrified long before the PCs arrived there.
MrGrass 03-19-07, 08:08 PM	The big rat is basically the king rat (think Nutcracker) so he'd have his gaze off when all his little rat minions are around.
primemover003 03-19-07, 09:24 PM	Maybe you should use Bats instead of rats as they're "blind" and wouldn't be affected by the gaze (using blindsense)... sure it's not entirely accurate but it fits better! What's the boss monster's Gaze attack do???
Dunamin 03-20-07, 09:33 AM	Maybe you should use Bats instead of rats as they're "blind" and wouldn't be affected by the gaze (using blindsense)... sure it's not entirely accurate but it fits better! Bats are not blind. On the contrary, their sight is pretty damn good! For that matter, having the blindsense ability does not necessarily make a creature blind.
KingMarl 03-20-07, 10:33 AM	Not sure what the dilemma here is. Simply define the rat swarm as being immune to the petrifying gaze as an extraordinary ability. Not like it's going to affect its CR any. If you're looking for some actual, defined, in-game mechanic for this, just make them blind rats with blindsight. I'm just not sure why it's worth the effort. ******** By the way, the RAW specify that allies of a creature with a gaze attack are treated as having their eyes averted: From the SRD: Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.
primemover003 03-20-07, 04:23 PM	Bats are not blind. On the contrary, their sight is pretty damn good! For that matter, having the blindsense ability does not necessarily make a creature blind. I know they're not actually blind... but come on it fits the flavor of the encounter. Again for the OP, what's the Gaze attack do?