Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ashcat_lt 04-27-07, 01:22 PM	I'm building an NPC marshal, and had this great idea. The rules don't say anything about it, but I thought I run it by the community and see what everybody thinks. I gave this guy Improved Initiative and Danger Sense (from MM, allows reroll of initiative 1/day) with the idea that if he wins initiative he can use his Grant Move Action ability to allow his troops to get into position / formation before the PCs get their turns. The troops would be flat-footed, since they haven't had an actual turn in the init order yet. Can they take advantage of this granted action? If so, are they still flat-footed after? Based on RAW, I think the answers are yes and yes. I see it as the marshal has become aware that combat is imminent and starts shouting orders. The troops respond instinctively, even though they're not exactly sure what's going on. They are still a little off-guard when the PCs attack. Any thoughts?
starfire311 04-27-07, 01:33 PM	seems ok to me, but wouldn't taking an action make you no longer flat-footed.
ashcat_lt 04-27-07, 01:52 PM	Well, flat-footed says "until his turn in the initiative sequence" and grant-move action says it doesn't change that sequence. It does seem kinda weird, but by RAW I think that's how it goes. Besides, it's kind of a dirty trick, and powerful enough without screwing the rogue (in this case lurk) out of his first round SA's. Anybody else?
meabolex 04-27-07, 02:45 PM	Well, flat-footed says "until his turn in the initiative sequence" and grant-move action says it doesn't change that sequence. Yep. From 3.5 SRD Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You're still flat-footed until your first regular turn in the initiative order.
Radijs 04-29-07, 08:23 AM	But by getting a move action they have had a chance to act.
Marcus Majarra 04-29-07, 07:16 PM	That still doesn't change the fact that you're flat-footed on account of your first initiative not having come up yet. Read meabolex's quote of the SRD.
starfire311 04-30-07, 09:16 AM	That still doesn't change the fact that you're flat-footed on account of your first initiative not having come up yet. Read meabolex's quote of the SRD. the thing is that, the SRD reads. Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. and if you remove the parenthetical text it should mean the same thing. Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act, you are flat-footed. if you follow the parnethetical text completly, then if you act during surprise round, you are still flat footed until your regular turn in the initiative order. I think the 2nd quote is how it is intended to be read, and what the rule should be.
meabolex 04-30-07, 11:25 AM	and if you remove the parenthetical text it should mean the same thing. ... if you follow the parnethetical text completly, then if you act during surprise round, you are still flat footed until your regular turn in the initiative order. Except the concept of "first regular turn" is undefined. Does that rule out surprise rounds or not? It could just mean after your turn has come up in initiative regardless of whether its a surprise round or not. However, I believe the proceeding text talking about surprise rounds is an exception to the above rule. SURPRISE When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised. Determining Awareness Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware. Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks. The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs. Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC. BTW, this is poor writing at its finest (: You should always make the text in parentheses optional so that it can be removed without removing meaning from the sentence.