Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zinger2099 11-20-07, 06:00 PM	What happens if you attempt to Grapple a Prone character? Is the character automatically pinned? Does the character have any negatives for Grappling while Prone? Does the Grappler have any bonuses for Grappling a Prone character? Is there anything else I should know about someone attempting to Grapple a Prone character that I haven't already asked about? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Marcus Majarra 11-20-07, 11:04 PM	When a prone character becomes grappled, he does not automatically become pinned. Being pinned doesn't equate to being prone. As a visual example, consider someone caught in a bear hug. This person is essentially pinned, given into consideration what being pinned means (held immobile, more vulnerable to attacks by others, can only attempt to escape). However, since it may still be in a normal "standing" position, nothing leads me to believe that it should be prone too. Regarding the question of bonuses/penalties for grappling with prone opponents, this is probably a matter of debate. It's not unreasonable to have the prone grappler take a -4 penalty on its grapple checks, since these are described to be like melee attacks (and prone attackers take a -4 penalty in melee). Whenever it attempts the attack your opponent option when grappling, the prone character takes the -4 penalty on melee attacks as normal. As for the grappler receiving bonuses against his prone opponent, this is not the case. Prone defenders do take a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks, so the non-prone grappler could attempt the attack your opponent option and capitalize on this fact. Otherwise, that pretty much covers it.
weasel0 11-21-07, 01:16 AM	Nevermind, i was wrong
tos_shai_hulud 11-21-07, 02:12 AM	When a prone character becomes grappled, he does not automatically become pinned. Being pinned doesn't equate to being prone. As a visual example, consider someone caught in a bear hug. This person is essentially pinned, given into consideration what being pinned means (held immobile, more vulnerable to attacks by others, can only attempt to escape). However, since it may still be in a normal "standing" position, nothing leads me to believe that it should be prone too. Regarding the question of bonuses/penalties for grappling with prone opponents, this is probably a matter of debate. It's not unreasonable to have the prone grappler take a -4 penalty on its grapple checks, since these are described to be like melee attacks (and prone attackers take a -4 penalty in melee). Whenever it attempts the attack your opponent option when grappling, the prone character takes the -4 penalty on melee attacks as normal. As for the grappler receiving bonuses against his prone opponent, this is not the case. Prone defenders do take a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks, so the non-prone grappler could attempt the attack your opponent option and capitalize on this fact. Otherwise, that pretty much covers it. I have been watching Ultimate Fighting Championships a bit, and I see no evidence that a person on the ground is any less capable of grappling. Perhaps this goes into special jujitsu training, and perhaps a normal person on the ground is less capable when grappling, but some of those guys opt for a ground position. From the ground, I have seen them pin guys who are still standing (by pin, I mean get them into submission holds). In fact, being on the ground while your opponent is still standing could very well be a way to gain extra leverage. Consider having your opponent in some form of arm-lock when you throw all of your weight onto the ground. Now, instead of fighting against your muscle strength, they are fighting against your dead weight lying on the ground. Perhaps this only applies to jujitsu masters, but from what I have seen, you can grapple from any position, standing or lying down.
Zinger2099 11-21-07, 08:19 AM	Thanks for the swift replies. I think I have all I need.