Grease, ice, or other slippery surfaces question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Grease, ice, or other slippery surfaces question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rood_Inverse
12-23-07, 11:47 AM I probably am not the first person to consider this... But tell me if it works inside the rules, or would have to be something left to DM caveat.

I'm a solo rogue, armed with a Wand of Grease. I need to get by an enemy I cannot kill.

Coating the floor with multiple uses of my wand, could I increase my movement rate (and perhaps a dodge AC) by making a running jump onto the grease and sliding on it, bypassing the enemy?
JackSnape
12-23-07, 12:10 PM As far as I know grease, etc effectivly slows movement so what you're trying to do is not covered in the grease spell, but it isn't outside the rules either, and I think most DMs would aloow it.
For the sake of discussionn:
A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. This save is repeated on your turn each round that the creature remains within the area. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).
Now as a DM I like what you're trying to do, and I would allow a complex skill check. "OK the monster succeded on his check, he's still standing. Roll me a Balance check to be sure you don't fall, now roll me a tumble check(DC 5 higher than normal for a slippery surface.) You succeded on both? You take a running start, and slide past the monster, he's unable to respond without falling, and you're now in flanking position.
Rood_Inverse
12-23-07, 12:21 PM And would it provoke only normal AoO, as I'm still moving through (potentially) threatened squares? Since you can make tumble checks (which you said you'd call for) to not provoke an AoO, I'm curious how that would wind up.

Would my movement be halved if I slide through the enemy's square (say, between his legs)? In your ruling, that would make a DC 30 tumble check? Or, because it's greased, and I'm not the one providing locomotion, I continue at full speed past, or through, my opponent?
JackSnape
12-23-07, 12:26 PM I would (and this is just me) allow you to move your full speed without AoO so long as you made both checks. The +5 to tumble seems to allow that.
Now I can be a little cruel when players try something out of the ordianry and fail. If you fail the balance check, you're prone next to said critter. If you fail the tumble check you provoke AoO and move 1/2 speed.
That would be my spur of the moment ruling.
Kouk
12-24-07, 03:06 AM Another option that does not enter into the area of House Rules is to simply use the Wand of Grease to coat the floor under the enemy, maybe he falls, maysbe he doesn't. Then use your Bow (or whatever) and Sneak Attack him because he is considered Balancing and thus losing his Dexterity bonus to AC and is subject to Sneak Attacks. Upon taking damage from your attack, he will have to make another check to remain standing (if he is still standing).

If he is on the ground, he will have a -4 to attack in melee, so you can then try to run or Tumble past him then, maybe using Total Defense.

If the enemy has 5 ranks or more in Balance (does any NPC?) then it won't work though because he won't be considered Flat Footed.

If I was the DM and you tried sliding across the Greased area, I would allow you to move at about your normal movement rate and you would also be subject to falling over as normal for entering the Grease (possibly making you Prone) and also allowing the enemy to take AoOs as you pass by if he is able to. I really don't think you can move so fast as to be nothing but a blur to him just by sliding along what is probably similar to ice in an ice rink, at least not unless you were sliding down an extremely steep angle with a lot of space to pick up speed. And then it would probably just be some ad-hoc AC bonus to avoid his AoO. But that's me.

Also, check on the duration of your Grease Wand's effects. If it is the default CL 1, it will only last one round so the first will be gone by the time you cast the second.
DrMorganes
12-24-07, 10:07 AM If he is on the ground, he will have a -4 to attack in melee, so you can then try to run or Tumble past him then, maybe using Total Defense.

<<original post removed due to wild inaccuracy>>

Nevermind. One of these days I'll learn to check my references before posting...
mvincent
12-24-07, 01:40 PM could I increase my movement rate (and perhaps a dodge AC) by making a running jump onto the grease and sliding on it, bypassing the enemy?This would likely be equivalent a tumbling check to avoid the AoO (DC 25 if accelerated, but I'd give you a +2 circumstance bonus for cleverness), then a DC 15 balance check to slide (accelerated) through the rest of the grease (again, I'd probably give you a +2 circumstance bonus for cleverness). If you double move, you should be well past the enemy, and he would not be able to hit you with an AoO.

Piece of cake for a decent rogue.
Rood_Inverse
12-24-07, 03:56 PM Also, check on the duration of your Grease Wand's effects. If it is the default CL 1, it will only last one round so the first will be gone by the time you cast the second.

The grease disappears? I didn't notice that - I only read the description, and missed the duration. Would be a better spell if the grease stayed. =\

So, unlike Create Food & Water, you can make the grease, collect and save it in bottles? Just to be 100-percent on this.
Kouk
12-25-07, 12:47 PM The grease disappears? I didn't notice that - I only read the description, and missed the duration. Would be a better spell if the grease stayed. =\

So, unlike Create Food & Water, you can make the grease, collect and save it in bottles? Just to be 100-percent on this.

It's Duration is 1 round/level, and it is a level 1 spell. The general rule is magic items will be made at the minimum possible caster level that they can be, unless the crafter specifies otherwise. If you bought this Wand at a Base Price of 750gp, it will only be CL 1, so it lasts 1 round. If you found it, you could ask the DM if it is only CL 1 or maybe higher (or maybe with Extend Spell or something like that), it is possible to make Wands at higher CL, just not by default.

If it is CL 1 then you only have a Move Action after activating it before the Grease goes -- Grease at CL 1 is very limited in usefulness.

And actually, the food from Create Food and Water has a (useful) duration of 24 hours unless you keep casting Purify Food and Drink on it. The water part is totally permanent though.

EDIT: If you want "bottled" Grease, some DMs allow vials of oil to be thrown and affect a square as if a permanent Grease spell (until cleaned up or maybe just walked over a few times), or limit you to having to intentionally pour the oil on the square as indicated in the Oil description in the Equipment chapter. A DM might also allow you to use an Oil of Grease (a Potion that you don't drink) as a grenade-like weapon which casts Grease where it lands, but I am fairly certain this is not normally how it would function. I'd allow it though :P
IAmTheScum
12-26-07, 08:28 PM There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill).
mvincent
12-27-07, 12:22 PM There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit itAgreed.

you might as well just run on solid ground.Yup (except, sliding would certainly look more interesting, kinda like the sort of things they throw into movies, which is part of the fun). My personal house rule is "anything that can be done in a normal way can be done just as easily in a flashy way"

i.e. if the PC could just as easily walk across the room without trouble, then I would likely just say he accomplished his stunt (without rolling) in the fancy way. If the player needed to avoid AoO's, then add a tumbling roll. If the area had already been greased (to hinder an opponent earlier)... add a balance roll. How it's described is mostly just fluff.
Loren Pechtel
12-27-07, 04:19 PM There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill).

This is how I see it, also. I can't see any way the wand of grease will increase your speed unless there is a fairly steep hill involved.

I would look to using the wand to keep him from following you.

The one thing the wand could possibly do is allow you to take some sort of action while going past that you otherwise couldn't have taken due to being at run speed. If you spend your entire round sliding on the grease I would be inclined to give you most of your movement speed without requiring to you to commit a full-round action to doing it.

If you have a good-sided shield I would be inclined to allow you to make a tumble check to get past him without an AoO. Note, however, that you need lots of space to do this--I would require that you spend the previous round running and then a round sliding past him. You'll need enough grease for a round's worth of movement as you're going to have to prepare to run again when you run out of grease or you're going to come to an abrupt halt.

How to put down the grease without alerting him I'm not going to even try to tackle.
Mock26
12-27-07, 06:01 PM There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill). Faster, No. Harder to hit, Yes. You have to remember that as he's down on his belly sliding past the monster he doesn't have to worry about trying to NOT fall down. But, the monster trying to attack him has to worry about NOT falling down and that would probably make him hesitant to attack and would slow down his reactions. At the very least I'd have the monster make a Dex. check and if he made it he would be at -2 to attack the sliding creature and if he failed it he would be at -4 to attack.
PenderGrass
12-27-07, 08:54 PM OK, I am going to chime in here (because that's what I do, it's who I am a chimer-in-ner).

Factors for the DM to consider:

1. Floor surface type (i.e., rough, smooth, etc.)
2. Floor angle - if any

If the floor is fairly smooth and not angled, I would allow the character to make a running "jump" - with the distance "jumped" being the distance he is capable of sliding (I might factor in a modifier if the floor is exceptionally smooth and the sliding character were wearing attire appropriate for sliding).

If the floor is fairly smooth and angled, the sliding character would definitely get an increased distance for sliding. If the angle were very steep, the possibility of an increased speed would be great if the drop were to last for longer than a single round (see falling speeds in the FAQ).

If the floor was rough and not very smooth, the sliding character may very well screech to a halt within 5 feet or less of his attempted slide. This may also happen if the character were said to be wearing attire that had no "slide capability." Maybe spiked leather and a bunch of equipment dangling all over his body.

A sliding character could attempt a tumble as he went through the threat zone of his opponent. There could be circumstantial modifiers to the tumble check if I felt it necessary.

Overall, I would not change how the grease operated on the standing opponent.

:dragon:
*****
Fitz10019
12-28-07, 10:43 AM How is the PC sliding, exactly?

1. On his feet, like a skater. (Needs Balance; can Tumble)
2. On his knees, like an electric guitar soloist. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble)
3. On his belly, like someone on a sled. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble; AC bonus for being prone?)
4. On his hip, legs first, like a baseball player. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble; AC bonus for being prone?)

Would run-and-jump sliding free up another move action for the PC during the slide, like riding?

Using slides 2-4 will require a move action to stand up, at some point.
Marcus Majarra
12-28-07, 11:48 AM As stated above, sliding on grease will not increase your momentum, and it'll certainly offer more resistance than merely gliding through the air will (think, running in big leaps). A creative and effective way to do this, while remaining faithful to the RAW, is by having the grease appear below the target. Since the target will be effectively balancing while on the greased squares, he won't be able to execute AoOs against you unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance (or Combat Reflexes), allowing you to safely bypass him.
Rood_Inverse
12-28-07, 10:24 PM A creative and effective way to do this, while remaining faithful to the RAW, is by having the grease appear below the target. .[ . .] allowing you to safely bypass him.

But that's boring. I was trying to look cool AND get bonuses for it. There's plenty to work with here under RAW, though, too, as far as sliding around goes.
BoringInfoGuy
12-29-07, 07:15 PM But that's boring. I was trying to look cool AND get bonuses for it. There's plenty to work with here under RAW, though, too, as far as sliding around goes.

You called? Oh, wait no. But as long as I'm here. . .

If you want to stick in RAW, here's what you've got. First, spell effects don't stack. Having two bull strength spells casts on the same person does not give him double the benefit. So, by RAW, casting multiple Grease spells won't make the floor any more slippery. If the duration is more than a single round, then you can grease a larger area, but that's it.

But hope is not lost. If you want to remain in RAW and pull off the trick, it's still doable.

Ok, let's look at Greases effect. Those in the area of effect when the spell is cast must make a reflex or fall. No sweat, just don't put yourself in the area of effect.

Second, you can move through the area of a grease spell at half move with a DC 10 check. Fail, and you can't move. Fail by 5 or more, and you fall.

So you can move on by, but slowly.

But now let's look at the Balance skill. Now you'll note that you have the option of accelerated movement. By taking a -5 penalty, you can move your normal movement. For one move, you make one Balance check. For a double move, you make two checks. It even lists the option to charge, making one balance check for each multiple of you speed (or fraction thereof) that you charge.

It doesn't list the option to run under accelerated movement, but we do see that Running and charging uses the same Balance DC to move quickly across a difficult surface. See Note 2 in the first table in the description for Balance.

So we can fairly safely assume that your character can even run across a slippery surface by making a successful Balance check for each multiple of his speed that he moves.

So here's the fun bit. Once you get your balance check to 14 *0, you can't fail on a balance check to move in the field of effect of the grease spell. (Ignoring modifiers such as a sloped surface). In effect, you can then treat greased floor just like regular flooring. Any way you can normally move, you can move.

Your opponent, on the other hand, is considered flat-footed *1. He looses his dex bonus to AC *2, can't take an AoO *3, and is an open target for Sneak Attacks *1,*2. His penalties are your bonuses.

But you want to slide. Well, all I can say to that is if I was your DM, then I'd go ahead and describe your move as a slide if you wanted. If you pass your check, then you can slide on by. If you fail, then you lose control, and fall prone. The mechanic remains the same, only the description of the action as changed.

I'd even suggest investing in the Spring Attack Feat *4. Grease the floor under your opponent, move by him in safety, and add injury to insult by taking a sneak attack in the process.

--------------------

*0. A high Dex, the Agile and Skill Focus feats, and 5 ranks in Tumble all can get your Balance skill up faster.
*1. Unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance.
*2. Unless he has the Uncanny Dodge ability.
*3. Unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.
*4. But this would be an expensive investment for a Rogue.
Kragg Bonemeal
01-02-08, 12:08 PM Boring... that was an exciting read!
BoringInfoGuy
01-02-08, 08:59 PM Boring... that was an exciting read!

Thank you very much.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rood_Inverse 12-23-07, 11:47 AM	I probably am not the first person to consider this... But tell me if it works inside the rules, or would have to be something left to DM caveat. I'm a solo rogue, armed with a Wand of Grease. I need to get by an enemy I cannot kill. Coating the floor with multiple uses of my wand, could I increase my movement rate (and perhaps a dodge AC) by making a running jump onto the grease and sliding on it, bypassing the enemy?
JackSnape 12-23-07, 12:10 PM	As far as I know grease, etc effectivly slows movement so what you're trying to do is not covered in the grease spell, but it isn't outside the rules either, and I think most DMs would aloow it. For the sake of discussionn: A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. This save is repeated on your turn each round that the creature remains within the area. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details). Now as a DM I like what you're trying to do, and I would allow a complex skill check. "OK the monster succeded on his check, he's still standing. Roll me a Balance check to be sure you don't fall, now roll me a tumble check(DC 5 higher than normal for a slippery surface.) You succeded on both? You take a running start, and slide past the monster, he's unable to respond without falling, and you're now in flanking position.
Rood_Inverse 12-23-07, 12:21 PM	And would it provoke only normal AoO, as I'm still moving through (potentially) threatened squares? Since you can make tumble checks (which you said you'd call for) to not provoke an AoO, I'm curious how that would wind up. Would my movement be halved if I slide through the enemy's square (say, between his legs)? In your ruling, that would make a DC 30 tumble check? Or, because it's greased, and I'm not the one providing locomotion, I continue at full speed past, or through, my opponent?
JackSnape 12-23-07, 12:26 PM	I would (and this is just me) allow you to move your full speed without AoO so long as you made both checks. The +5 to tumble seems to allow that. Now I can be a little cruel when players try something out of the ordianry and fail. If you fail the balance check, you're prone next to said critter. If you fail the tumble check you provoke AoO and move 1/2 speed. That would be my spur of the moment ruling.
Kouk 12-24-07, 03:06 AM	Another option that does not enter into the area of House Rules is to simply use the Wand of Grease to coat the floor under the enemy, maybe he falls, maysbe he doesn't. Then use your Bow (or whatever) and Sneak Attack him because he is considered Balancing and thus losing his Dexterity bonus to AC and is subject to Sneak Attacks. Upon taking damage from your attack, he will have to make another check to remain standing (if he is still standing). If he is on the ground, he will have a -4 to attack in melee, so you can then try to run or Tumble past him then, maybe using Total Defense. If the enemy has 5 ranks or more in Balance (does any NPC?) then it won't work though because he won't be considered Flat Footed. If I was the DM and you tried sliding across the Greased area, I would allow you to move at about your normal movement rate and you would also be subject to falling over as normal for entering the Grease (possibly making you Prone) and also allowing the enemy to take AoOs as you pass by if he is able to. I really don't think you can move so fast as to be nothing but a blur to him just by sliding along what is probably similar to ice in an ice rink, at least not unless you were sliding down an extremely steep angle with a lot of space to pick up speed. And then it would probably just be some ad-hoc AC bonus to avoid his AoO. But that's me. Also, check on the duration of your Grease Wand's effects. If it is the default CL 1, it will only last one round so the first will be gone by the time you cast the second.
DrMorganes 12-24-07, 10:07 AM	If he is on the ground, he will have a -4 to attack in melee, so you can then try to run or Tumble past him then, maybe using Total Defense. <<original post removed due to wild inaccuracy>> Nevermind. One of these days I'll learn to check my references before posting...
mvincent 12-24-07, 01:40 PM	could I increase my movement rate (and perhaps a dodge AC) by making a running jump onto the grease and sliding on it, bypassing the enemy?This would likely be equivalent a tumbling check to avoid the AoO (DC 25 if accelerated, but I'd give you a +2 circumstance bonus for cleverness), then a DC 15 balance check to slide (accelerated) through the rest of the grease (again, I'd probably give you a +2 circumstance bonus for cleverness). If you double move, you should be well past the enemy, and he would not be able to hit you with an AoO. Piece of cake for a decent rogue.
Rood_Inverse 12-24-07, 03:56 PM	Also, check on the duration of your Grease Wand's effects. If it is the default CL 1, it will only last one round so the first will be gone by the time you cast the second. The grease disappears? I didn't notice that - I only read the description, and missed the duration. Would be a better spell if the grease stayed. =\ So, unlike Create Food & Water, you can make the grease, collect and save it in bottles? Just to be 100-percent on this.
Kouk 12-25-07, 12:47 PM	The grease disappears? I didn't notice that - I only read the description, and missed the duration. Would be a better spell if the grease stayed. =\ So, unlike Create Food & Water, you can make the grease, collect and save it in bottles? Just to be 100-percent on this. It's Duration is 1 round/level, and it is a level 1 spell. The general rule is magic items will be made at the minimum possible caster level that they can be, unless the crafter specifies otherwise. If you bought this Wand at a Base Price of 750gp, it will only be CL 1, so it lasts 1 round. If you found it, you could ask the DM if it is only CL 1 or maybe higher (or maybe with Extend Spell or something like that), it is possible to make Wands at higher CL, just not by default. If it is CL 1 then you only have a Move Action after activating it before the Grease goes -- Grease at CL 1 is very limited in usefulness. And actually, the food from Create Food and Water has a (useful) duration of 24 hours unless you keep casting Purify Food and Drink on it. The water part is totally permanent though. EDIT: If you want "bottled" Grease, some DMs allow vials of oil to be thrown and affect a square as if a permanent Grease spell (until cleaned up or maybe just walked over a few times), or limit you to having to intentionally pour the oil on the square as indicated in the Oil description in the Equipment chapter. A DM might also allow you to use an Oil of Grease (a Potion that you don't drink) as a grenade-like weapon which casts Grease where it lands, but I am fairly certain this is not normally how it would function. I'd allow it though :P
IAmTheScum 12-26-07, 08:28 PM	There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill).
mvincent 12-27-07, 12:22 PM	There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit itAgreed. you might as well just run on solid ground.Yup (except, sliding would certainly look more interesting, kinda like the sort of things they throw into movies, which is part of the fun). My personal house rule is "anything that can be done in a normal way can be done just as easily in a flashy way" i.e. if the PC could just as easily walk across the room without trouble, then I would likely just say he accomplished his stunt (without rolling) in the fancy way. If the player needed to avoid AoO's, then add a tumbling roll. If the area had already been greased (to hinder an opponent earlier)... add a balance roll. How it's described is mostly just fluff.
Loren Pechtel 12-27-07, 04:19 PM	There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill). This is how I see it, also. I can't see any way the wand of grease will increase your speed unless there is a fairly steep hill involved. I would look to using the wand to keep him from following you. The one thing the wand could possibly do is allow you to take some sort of action while going past that you otherwise couldn't have taken due to being at run speed. If you spend your entire round sliding on the grease I would be inclined to give you most of your movement speed without requiring to you to commit a full-round action to doing it. If you have a good-sided shield I would be inclined to allow you to make a tumble check to get past him without an AoO. Note, however, that you need lots of space to do this--I would require that you spend the previous round running and then a round sliding past him. You'll need enough grease for a round's worth of movement as you're going to have to prepare to run again when you run out of grease or you're going to come to an abrupt halt. How to put down the grease without alerting him I'm not going to even try to tackle.
Mock26 12-27-07, 06:01 PM	There's no reason why sliding on grease would make you faster or be harder to hit. You'd continue moving at the rate you were going when you hit it, so you might as well just run on solid ground. You wouldn't suddenly accelerate (unless you were going downhill). Faster, No. Harder to hit, Yes. You have to remember that as he's down on his belly sliding past the monster he doesn't have to worry about trying to NOT fall down. But, the monster trying to attack him has to worry about NOT falling down and that would probably make him hesitant to attack and would slow down his reactions. At the very least I'd have the monster make a Dex. check and if he made it he would be at -2 to attack the sliding creature and if he failed it he would be at -4 to attack.
PenderGrass 12-27-07, 08:54 PM	OK, I am going to chime in here (because that's what I do, it's who I am a chimer-in-ner). Factors for the DM to consider: 1. Floor surface type (i.e., rough, smooth, etc.) 2. Floor angle - if any If the floor is fairly smooth and not angled, I would allow the character to make a running "jump" - with the distance "jumped" being the distance he is capable of sliding (I might factor in a modifier if the floor is exceptionally smooth and the sliding character were wearing attire appropriate for sliding). If the floor is fairly smooth and angled, the sliding character would definitely get an increased distance for sliding. If the angle were very steep, the possibility of an increased speed would be great if the drop were to last for longer than a single round (see falling speeds in the FAQ). If the floor was rough and not very smooth, the sliding character may very well screech to a halt within 5 feet or less of his attempted slide. This may also happen if the character were said to be wearing attire that had no "slide capability." Maybe spiked leather and a bunch of equipment dangling all over his body. A sliding character could attempt a tumble as he went through the threat zone of his opponent. There could be circumstantial modifiers to the tumble check if I felt it necessary. Overall, I would not change how the grease operated on the standing opponent. :dragon: *****
Fitz10019 12-28-07, 10:43 AM	How is the PC sliding, exactly? 1. On his feet, like a skater. (Needs Balance; can Tumble) 2. On his knees, like an electric guitar soloist. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble) 3. On his belly, like someone on a sled. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble; AC bonus for being prone?) 4. On his hip, legs first, like a baseball player. (No Balance needed; can't Tumble; AC bonus for being prone?) Would run-and-jump sliding free up another move action for the PC during the slide, like riding? Using slides 2-4 will require a move action to stand up, at some point.
Marcus Majarra 12-28-07, 11:48 AM	As stated above, sliding on grease will not increase your momentum, and it'll certainly offer more resistance than merely gliding through the air will (think, running in big leaps). A creative and effective way to do this, while remaining faithful to the RAW, is by having the grease appear below the target. Since the target will be effectively balancing while on the greased squares, he won't be able to execute AoOs against you unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance (or Combat Reflexes), allowing you to safely bypass him.
Rood_Inverse 12-28-07, 10:24 PM	A creative and effective way to do this, while remaining faithful to the RAW, is by having the grease appear below the target. .[ . .] allowing you to safely bypass him. But that's boring. I was trying to look cool AND get bonuses for it. There's plenty to work with here under RAW, though, too, as far as sliding around goes.
BoringInfoGuy 12-29-07, 07:15 PM	But that's boring. I was trying to look cool AND get bonuses for it. There's plenty to work with here under RAW, though, too, as far as sliding around goes. You called? Oh, wait no. But as long as I'm here. . . If you want to stick in RAW, here's what you've got. First, spell effects don't stack. Having two bull strength spells casts on the same person does not give him double the benefit. So, by RAW, casting multiple Grease spells won't make the floor any more slippery. If the duration is more than a single round, then you can grease a larger area, but that's it. But hope is not lost. If you want to remain in RAW and pull off the trick, it's still doable. Ok, let's look at Greases effect. Those in the area of effect when the spell is cast must make a reflex or fall. No sweat, just don't put yourself in the area of effect. Second, you can move through the area of a grease spell at half move with a DC 10 check. Fail, and you can't move. Fail by 5 or more, and you fall. So you can move on by, but slowly. But now let's look at the Balance skill. Now you'll note that you have the option of accelerated movement. By taking a -5 penalty, you can move your normal movement. For one move, you make one Balance check. For a double move, you make two checks. It even lists the option to charge, making one balance check for each multiple of you speed (or fraction thereof) that you charge. It doesn't list the option to run under accelerated movement, but we do see that Running and charging uses the same Balance DC to move quickly across a difficult surface. See Note 2 in the first table in the description for Balance. So we can fairly safely assume that your character can even run across a slippery surface by making a successful Balance check for each multiple of his speed that he moves. So here's the fun bit. Once you get your balance check to 14 0, you can't fail on a balance check to move in the field of effect of the grease spell. (Ignoring modifiers such as a sloped surface). In effect, you can then treat greased floor just like regular flooring. Any way you can normally move, you can move. Your opponent, on the other hand, is considered flat-footed 1. He looses his dex bonus to AC 2, can't take an AoO 3, and is an open target for Sneak Attacks 1,2. His penalties are your bonuses. But you want to slide. Well, all I can say to that is if I was your DM, then I'd go ahead and describe your move as a slide if you wanted. If you pass your check, then you can slide on by. If you fail, then you lose control, and fall prone. The mechanic remains the same, only the description of the action as changed. I'd even suggest investing in the Spring Attack Feat 4. Grease the floor under your opponent, move by him in safety, and add injury to insult by taking a sneak attack in the process. -------------------- 0. A high Dex, the Agile and Skill Focus feats, and 5 ranks in Tumble all can get your Balance skill up faster. 1. Unless he has 5 or more ranks in Balance. 2. Unless he has the Uncanny Dodge ability. 3. Unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat. 4. But this would be an expensive investment for a Rogue.
Kragg Bonemeal 01-02-08, 12:08 PM	Boring... that was an exciting read!
BoringInfoGuy 01-02-08, 08:59 PM	Boring... that was an exciting read! Thank you very much.