Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Finarin Panjoro 11-14-07, 03:06 PM	Green Slime (CR 4): This dungeon peril is a dangerous variety of normal slime. Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. Bright green, wet, and sticky, it clings to walls, floors, and ceilings in patches, reproducing as it consumes organic matter. It drops from walls and ceilings when it detects movement (and possible food) below. A single 5-foot square of green slime deals 1d6 points of Constitution damage per round while it devours flesh. On the first round of contact, the slime can be scraped off a creature (most likely destroying the scraping device), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a patch of green slime. Against wood or metal, green slime deals 2d6 points of damage per round, ignoring metal’s hardness but not that of wood. It does not harm stone. This description leaves a great deal unexplained so I'm seeking advice from my fellow DMs on how to run an encounter with Green Slime (which I'm planning to do in the near future). Here are some of my questions, but I'm sure there's others I haven't thought of. 1. Is there a Spot check to notice green slime or a Knowledge (dungeoneering) check to recognize that it isn't normal slime? 2. Is there a Reflex Save to avoid it? Is it required for each square or for each move through a contaminated area? 3. Is the slime considered to be attacking you? Is this a touch attack? What attack bonus is applied? 4. Does every square that you move through potentially damage you (that is could you take 5d6 Con damage from walking under 25 feet of slime)? 5. If you're moving on your turn and are hit by slime can you scrape it off at the beginning of your next turn or must it now be burnt/frozen/cut, etc? In otherwords does someone else have to scrape it off you who still has a standard action that round to do so? 6. Can you safely bypass it with a torch (by using its fire damage to destroy patches in sequence until you're past it)? Any example encounters or stories of past encounters that you've run would be helpful? RPGA examples would also be welcome as I'm sure they've had to rule on this at some point. Many thanks, -Fin
Phrennzy 11-14-07, 05:46 PM	This description leaves a great deal unexplained so I'm seeking advice from my fellow DMs on how to run an encounter with Green Slime (which I'm planning to do in the near future). Here are some of my questions, but I'm sure there's others I haven't thought of. 1. Is there a Spot check to notice green slime or a Knowledge (dungeoneering) check to recognize that it isn't normal slime? I would use a spot check. Probably hard to miss, so anywhere from a 10 to 15. Same on the dungeoneering check. Granted, that all depends on where it is. Since it's usually on the cieling, I'd make the DC 15 if you are just walking into a room under it, but 10 if you enter a room across from it. 2. Is there a Reflex Save to avoid it? Is it required for each square or for each move through a contaminated area? Again, DM's call, but I would say a DC 20 Reflex to avoid (same as avoiding a pit trap opening under you). 3. Is the slime considered to be attacking you? Is this a touch attack? What attack bonus is applied? It's an area attack, so no roll to hit. 4. Does every square that you move through potentially damage you (that is could you take 5d6 Con damage from walking under 25 feet of slime)? I would say yes, just like moving through lava would cause you the damage each 5' square. (I could be wrong - I would definately look up lava and compare the two). 5. If you're moving on your turn and are hit by slime can you scrape it off at the beginning of your next turn or must it now be burnt/frozen/cut, etc? In otherwords does someone else have to scrape it off you who still has a standard action that round to do so? I would consider the slime dropping on you to be it's surprise round. The victim has a round's worth of actions to take, at the end of which the slime causes the damage. 6. Can you safely bypass it with a torch (by using its fire damage to destroy patches in sequence until you're past it)? Yes. I would rule it as requiring a move action to do so, and that you can only move at 1/4 speed. So the average person could burn through 15' of green slime in one round, assuming it uses both it's actions to move forward. Any example encounters or stories of past encounters that you've run would be helpful? RPGA examples would also be welcome as I'm sure they've had to rule on this at some point. Many thanks, -Fin I can't remember the last time I used the stuff, other than having a slime covered pool of water that scared everyone. All my players are familiar with the old green slime horror stories, and so any type of slime, mold, or fungus gets a WIDE berth.
weasel0 11-14-07, 11:12 PM	heh, heh, heh.... heh. The old, "Exploding Black Mold" on the treasure bags trick!
Finarin Panjoro 11-15-07, 10:27 AM	Thanks Phrennzy, that gives me some food for thought. Spot check DC 10 if it has no cover from where you are, DC 15 if it has cover (is on the other side of wall with a door). That sounds reasonable. I guess it seems like if each square requires a save and can deal damage then the CR should be 4 per square. So four squares would be CR 8. However this is still really easy to bybass since you can use a torch to get through. That makes this seem like it would be too easy for a CR 8 encounter. Referring to it as an area attack is an interesting thing. That makes me think that one continguous area should attack you once per round while you were in it. That is if you found a 20x20 patch and had to move through it you would only have to save once for the area, but you would have to if you went through any of the area (if you entered the area in one round and had to leave it the following round you'd have to save twice). Having to save four times seems like it would be way above CR 4. Maybe the Reflex Save should be increased for moving through more squares (like +2 to the DC per square you move through). What bonuses would you allow you players to apply? Maybe a +2 for running through the area? Apply a shield bonus to the Reflex save if held overhead? Complete cover (like a tower shield blocks the slime completely)? You also indicate that you would allow the green slime to be scraped off before it inflicts its damage. So a normal encounter with it could be, get hit, move out from under it and immediately scrape it off without taking damage. If it isn't scraped off before the slime's next "turn" it deals damage. Once it deals damage it would have to be burned/frozen/cut off. And what about Green Slime on the floor? Same Spot and Reflex Save DC? Does it begin eating your boots/shoes? It seems it could be jumped over without requiring a save (instead you'd have your jump check). I would rule that it takes 1 round to eat through normal shoes/boots, two rounds through heavy armor boots, and that magical boots get a DC 20 Fort Save to neutralize the stuff or are ruined. More thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
Colmarr 11-15-07, 08:49 PM	1. Is there a Spot check to notice green slime or a Knowledge (dungeoneering) check to recognize that it isn't normal slime? I don't think I'd require a Spot check to notice the slime unless it was in an unusual location (such as under the lip of a sarcophagus or on the ceiling). A Kn (dungeoneering) check is definitely in order to recognise it as a danger. 2. Is there a Reflex Save to avoid it? Is it required for each square or for each move through a contaminated area? I would say no. If you move into a square containing green slime, you take the damage. If you wanted to have a slime smaller than 5ft square, you might allow a reflex save to avoid touching the the slime itself. A balance check might be more appropriate... 3. Is the slime considered to be attacking you? Is this a touch attack? What attack bonus is applied? Slime seems more akin to a swarm than a creature IMO. As such, there is no attack roll. If you're in the square, you're taking damage. 4. Does every square that you move through potentially damage you (that is could you take 5d6 Con damage from walking under 25 feet of slime)? Perhaps. The damage appears to be coming from contact with the slime (which sticks immediately upon contact). As such, once it's on your boots/feet stepping on more slime won't make any difference. It's slime on slime. However, a Large or larger creature takes up more squares and can potentially come into contact with more slime. An ogre standing in a 10x10 pool of green slime would take 4d6 Con damage per round. 5. If you're moving on your turn and are hit by slime can you scrape it off at the beginning of your next turn or must it now be burnt/frozen/cut, etc? In otherwords does someone else have to scrape it off you who still has a standard action that round to do so? Tricky question. IIRC the slime isn't considered a creature by the rules, so it doesn't have a position in initiative. As such, the damage would be inflicted 1 full round after you made contact with the slime. Applying the same rules as casting a "1 round" spell, the damage is done just before the start of your next turn. As such, you may or may not be able to scrape it off yourself, depending on what you were doing at the time you made contact. 6. Can you safely bypass it with a torch (by using its fire damage to destroy patches in sequence until you're past it)? Yes. I would rule doing so as a full-round action (Rules-wise that's doesn't sound right, but I have trouble accepting the "jab it with a touch and ta-da! it's gone" visual). And what about Green Slime on the floor? Same Spot and Reflex Save DC? Does it begin eating your boots/shoes? It seems it could be jumped over without requiring a save (instead you'd have your jump check). I would rule that it takes 1 round to eat through normal shoes/boots, two rounds through heavy armor boots, and that magical boots get a DC 20 Fort Save to neutralize the stuff or are ruined. This is probably best handled by the object hp and hardness rules. Although the rules text doesn't specifically say so, I would rule that green slime does 2d6 damage per round to all objects. A trickier question is which objects get to apply their hardness. I can't determine the logic behind wood retaining its hardness but metal not. For simplicity, I'd probably rule that no object keeps its hardness unless it's made of wood. That raises a second question: Should green slime destroy magic items? I think that's a call for individual DMs, with the related question about hp and hardness of magic items likewise.
Finarin Panjoro 11-16-07, 09:45 AM	Thanks Colmarr, definitely a different approach to it then Phrennzy had posted. Comparing it to a swarm is an interesting idea. So you would say that it is automatically spotted (under normal circumstances), but requires a check to recognize as hazardous (at least the first time). It also automatically hits if you walk into a square that contains it (whether floor, ceiling, or wall), but multiple squares don't deal additional damage. The scraping thing is a tough call. If I walk into it on my turn and am hit, if I've used a single move action then I still have a standard action that I can use to scrape it off. If I've already double moved then my first opportunity to scrape it off is the beginning of my next turn. I'm going to have to make a decision about how this works. I'm not sure about not allowing a saving throw to avoid its effects. Virtually anything that damages you allows a save or requires an attack roll to deliver its effects. However if you treat it as a swarm that position makes sense seeing as swarm damage does not allow a save. One could just treat it as though you walked into a swarm. Thoughts on other applications of green slime: Undead: Since it deals con damage to flesh couldn't a zombie (or other undead) coat itself in this stuff such that it would deliver green slime with its natural attacks and to weapons that struck its body? I know the text refers to 'devouring flesh' but mechanically it doesn't do hit point damage which would make undead immune to its effects. Glass: The rules don't describe how it effects glass, but its reasonable to assume it doesn't eat it since glass is made of sand which is basically stone. So could you fill a vial with it and use it as a weapon? please more thoughts on this everyone. You all are giving me a lot to think about.
Ikyotojin 11-16-07, 09:53 AM	Bone is organic until sedation replaces all of the organic binders with minerals - "fossilization". This leaves some organic compounds with the calcium of the bone and the mineralized fossil bone. Undead who are covered with green slime would have to be INCREDIBLY old - over 10,000 years. And I do allow a dodge but only if they spot the slime first.
Finarin Panjoro 11-16-07, 11:36 AM	How do you apply the dodge? Is it a Reflex Save? Also undead aren't exactly following real world standards for how they behave. A zombie for example will never decay to the point of being incapacitated (at least not by the rules). So there is some basis for believing that the negative energy that sustains them replaces lost tissues (albeit in a disgusting decay life form). The negative energy could also allow them to resist the destructive effects of green slime. Just some thoughts. I kinds like the idea of slime zombies.
Ikyotojin 11-16-07, 01:54 PM	I use the same reflex roll as avoiding a pit trap. And slime zombies would be seriously dangerous. Each hit would be treated like a dose of green slime and every hit by a character would mean the weapon has to be treated the same way! Makes ray of frost a serious "must have" spell all of a sudden.
Ikyotojin 11-16-07, 02:16 PM	Oh yeah - I went through some of my old notebooks and found this: Slime Balls: Some twisted tribes of goblins have found that there is more use to those old stolen pots and urns... They use them for weapons - Slime of various species can be harvested and contained in earthenware pots. These can be capped by clay and then hurled into combat... Or given to really drunk tribal rivals. Treat as acid, but with the effects of which ever species of slime is contained. Green slime is especially nasty as it leaves a small puddle of the vile goo that other people must take care not to step in. Even more dangerous are the Slime Pots - these are gallon size jars used to hurl from above or load into ballista and other siege engines. Several can be loaded into large hurling implements and give a scattergun effect. There are rumors of distant orc armies using even larger containers to bring down large wooden gates and fortifications.
Colmarr 11-18-07, 10:08 PM	Thanks Colmarr, definitely a different approach to it then Phrennzy had posted. Comparing it to a swarm is an interesting idea. No problem. So you would say that it is automatically spotted (under normal circumstances), but requires a check to recognize as hazardous (at least the first time). It also automatically hits if you walk into a square that contains it (whether floor, ceiling, or wall) I was mainly talking about slime on the floor. Stepping on it automatically affects you. Walls and ceilings are slightly trickier. If the slime is on the ceiling and can sense a creature, it will presumably drop. In those circumstances, there's no reason not to treat the slime like a trap (IIRC there's a "falling block" trap in the DMG. Use it as a guide to save DCs and so forth). If the slime is on the wall, presumably a character will never touch it accidentally. You do need to decide what happens if it drop off and hits the floor though (ie. does it spread outwards). If so, that's probably the same as a falling block trap. but multiple squares don't deal additional damage. Not quite. Moving through multiple squares doesn't do additional damage. If you can simultaneously be in more than 1 square (such as the ogre in my example), you will take more damage. The scraping thing is a tough call. If I walk into it on my turn and am hit, if I've used a single move action then I still have a standard action that I can use to scrape it off. If I've already double moved then my first opportunity to scrape it off is the beginning of my next turn. I'm going to have to make a decision about how this works. That's how I see it as working. Undead: Since it deals con damage to flesh couldn't a zombie (or other undead) coat itself in this stuff such that it would deliver green slime with its natural attacks and to weapons that struck its body? I know the text refers to 'devouring flesh' but mechanically it doesn't do hit point damage which would make undead immune to its effects. Technically yes, but why would the green slime adhere to something it cannot devour? It presumably isn't intelligent enough to foresee that a zombie will attack or be attacked. Glass: The rules don't describe how it effects glass, but its reasonable to assume it doesn't eat it since glass is made of sand which is basically stone. So could you fill a vial with it and use it as a weapon? I would say so.
Finarin Panjoro 11-19-07, 10:37 AM	Falling Block traps use a +15 attack roll. A Reflex Save seems more fitting to avoid falling goo to me. I'm thinking Reflex DC 20 seems fitting for a CR 4 threat. I'd apply that for the entire area you're moving through and require it each round that you move through it. Regarding the undead, I imagine the slime adheres to anything it comes in contact with but one could always have an encounter in which the zombies move through the slime seconds before attacking the PCs so it doesn't have to adhere for very long.
Ikyotojin 11-19-07, 12:17 PM	Falling Block traps use a +15 attack roll. A Reflex Save seems more fitting to avoid falling goo to me. I'm thinking Reflex DC 20 seems fitting for a CR 4 threat. I'd apply that for the entire area you're moving through and require it each round that you move through it. Regarding the undead, I imagine the slime adheres to anything it comes in contact with but one could always have an encounter in which the zombies move through the slime seconds before attacking the PCs so it doesn't have to adhere for very long. Big pit that the ancient maker of the undead told them to drag prisoners into. The bodies normally just rotted, but eventually some slime got in there. The slime ate the organics and the undead will follow their orders. They stay in the pit until the adventurers wander near. Then the skeletons come out covered in the slime and there yah have it!
pmurray@bigpond.com 11-20-07, 09:31 PM	I don't think I'd require a Spot check to notice the slime unless it was in an unusual location (such as under the lip of a sarcophagus or on the ceiling). A Kn (dungeoneering) check is definitely in order to recognise it as a danger. Spot check to distinguish it from all the rest of the slime on the walls. Kn (dung) to know that it is "green slime", rater than just being slime that is green.
ravenshrike 11-25-07, 11:00 PM	Big pit that the ancient maker of the undead told them to drag prisoners into. The bodies normally just rotted, but eventually some slime got in there. The slime ate the organics and the undead will follow their orders. They stay in the pit until the adventurers wander near. Then the skeletons come out covered in the slime and there yah have it! Um, undead are made of organic components. Which means that they take damage, 10d6 would be reasonable(about half as dangerous as lava). Otherwise the moment a character died, the slime would stop eating it.
Colmarr 11-26-07, 01:26 AM	Um, undead are made of organic components. Which means that they take damage Technically, no. They don't. Creatures touching green slime take Constitution damage. Undead are immune to con damage. Green slime does 2d6 points of damage to wood and metal. Undead are not (generally) made of wood or metal. It has no effect on stone. What does it do to undead? Per RAW, nothing.
ravenshrike 11-26-07, 06:14 PM	Technically, no. They don't. Creatures touching green slime take Constitution damage. Undead are immune to con damage. Green slime does 2d6 points of damage to wood and metal. Undead are not (generally) made of wood or metal. It has no effect on stone. What does it do to undead? Per RAW, nothing. Then, as I noted before, once players die it stops eating their bodies. Since this is a direct contradiction of the description, one can assume they didn't think some ******* of a DM would try to use green slime zombies to attack PCs.
Finarin Panjoro 11-27-07, 01:34 PM	For those of you not familiar with the term *******, it loosely translates as "creative genius".
Ikyotojin 11-27-07, 03:49 PM	Big room with all kinds of beautiful art and posh furnishings... and an emerald green inlay of what looks like jade or marble in the floor Oh yeah - the inlay is a pit of green slime with a thin sheet of glass that shatters once a certain amount of weight is put in the middle. *Splosh* Alternatively you can have small glass areas that are dispersed throughout the floor. As the party walks along they break the glass layer and the floor gets covered with the acidic goo and easts away the soles of their boots - and then it gets fun!
Zinger2099 11-27-07, 04:02 PM	How do I use it? I use it as the #1 deterent keeping adventurer's from setting up camp in the middle of a dungeon. That's right. Cuz GreenSlime is even worse when it latches onto you in your sleep. :)
Finarin Panjoro 11-27-07, 05:14 PM	Then, as I noted before, once players die it stops eating their bodies. True green slime normally consumes organic matter according to the description, but what's to say that green slime isn't repelled by the negative energy that animates the undead. Since green slime can't move of its own volition perhaps it just doesn't consume something suffused with negative energy and thus might coat a zombie, but would not consume it. That way it would dissolve a normal corpse, but not the undead. Flavor matches mechanics...Viola!