Half Golem PC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Half Golem PC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sunchilde
05-02-07, 08:58 PM K - I would like to check on the rules for PCs becoming half-golems. (acquiring the half-golem template)

From what I see here - it looks as though it would cost just over 30 000 gp (+any gold it would cost to hire someone to do if you had no party members to do it) one month, and a will save to give you (for iron golem arm - which is probably not even the best, if you take adamantine for example)

+12 strength
+4 constitution
-2 Dexterity
-6 Intelligence
-6 Charisma
+11 natural armour
DR25/+2
COMPLETE MAGIC IMMUNITY (barring rust, and a few other spells that would rarely effect - like electricity slowing etc)

What I don't see is what level adjust you would incur. It states challenge rating +3 - but challenge rating and level adjust are almost completely independant, so is there any recommendation here? Also - anything else I have missed ?
Morwen
05-02-07, 09:22 PM It doesn't have a level adjustment provided. In most cases, this is because the designers don't think it is suitable for use by a PC.

It's not complete magical immunity, by the way. It's only immunity to spells that have "SR: yes". Any spell that doesn't require a spell resistance check is still good to go :)
runestar
05-02-07, 10:45 PM In game terms, this means you cannot benefit from buff spells like fly or haste. No healing spells for you either. But foes are still free to smack you around with orb spells.;)
Sunchilde
05-02-07, 10:57 PM LoL - well I would guess that you couldn't be affected by haste and such - but as a non-construct . . . and no healing . . . ouchies. That would hurt. Hmmm. But regardless - other than the fact that Wizards doesn't think you should do it - how would you do it? Maybe I should post this in houserules - but I would like to see where this goes really.
runestar
05-02-07, 11:24 PM I might play another construct race, perhaps a warforged or maug, which are less problematic. :P
bobothechimp
05-02-07, 11:35 PM It is not intended for use as a race, and I would have to suggest it not to be used as one. If it was allowed, it would have an extremely high level adjustment, no less than +5 in my opinion, and completely ruin the balance of the party.

On the point of Half-golems being unaffected by positive spells, look at the description for Spell Immunity.

Spell Immunity

A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.

And then Spell Resistance

Spell Resistance

(Other unimportant stuff)

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

(Took these out to save space)

So he technically could intentionally lower Spell Immunity to have certain spells cast on him.
runestar
05-03-07, 10:41 PM Spell immunity is essentially infinite spell resistance.
I doubt you could lower infinite sr. -X(some arbitrarily high number) from infinite sr, and you still have infinite sr left over...:P
Burgundy Lotus
05-04-07, 08:10 AM I believe the 'Cannot be overcome' statement means that you cannot voluntarily lower it to benefit from helpful spells. This is why the Repair spells (used to heal constructs) have: SR no listed while the Cure spells have: SR yes (harmless)
olshanski_home
05-04-07, 09:11 AM I agree with Burgandy Lotus.
It cannot be overcome. That is the statement that overrides "can voluntarily lower spell resistance".

The point of golems is that they are uneffected by magic.
Enigmous
05-04-07, 06:02 PM There is an ECL calculator for that sorta stuff. Just put in the stats.
Enigmous
05-04-07, 06:06 PM I got the ECL at 4.2 after I put all the stats I saw in. So it would have a CR +4, maybe less because of the chance to go insane.
endofdreams
05-04-07, 06:09 PM I asked a similair question on the character optimization boards under Ask a simple question, Get a simple asnwer, page 156.

I was linked to a file that had readjusted MM2 for a more 3.5 environment. The Half Golem remained the same, except for updating the golems abilities with the 3.5 versions, though Monster of legend was raised to +7 LA

Out of curiosity, where are the ECL claculators?
Morwen
05-06-07, 06:59 PM I was linked to a file that had readjusted MM2 for a more 3.5 environment. The Half Golem remained the same, except for updating the golems abilities with the 3.5 versions, though Monster of legend was raised to +7 LA

It wasn't raised to +7; it was given +7. It didn't have an LA at all in the book itself (just like Half-Golem).
endofdreams
05-06-07, 07:32 PM It wasn't raised to +7; it was given +7.

which was higher than non-existent, so it rose from its original value.

_________________________

it isn't mentioned in the link, but did the immuities to piercing and slashing damage change?
tos_shai_hulud
05-06-07, 11:46 PM Non-existant means not meant for a player character. Typically, it is for templates or races that would be epic if they were given a level adjustment. You will notice that no creature that is playable starts with an ECL above 20 unless you have a base creature that you apply templates to. You can play an Astral Deva ECL 20, but the Solar is considered not appropriate for a PC. If you look, all of the creatures have caps at ECL 20, so if the template did not have a Level Adjustment, chances are, it would have brought a creature to above ECL 20. So bringing the Level Adjustment down to +7 seems accurate to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sunchilde 05-02-07, 08:58 PM	K - I would like to check on the rules for PCs becoming half-golems. (acquiring the half-golem template) From what I see here - it looks as though it would cost just over 30 000 gp (+any gold it would cost to hire someone to do if you had no party members to do it) one month, and a will save to give you (for iron golem arm - which is probably not even the best, if you take adamantine for example) +12 strength +4 constitution -2 Dexterity -6 Intelligence -6 Charisma +11 natural armour DR25/+2 COMPLETE MAGIC IMMUNITY (barring rust, and a few other spells that would rarely effect - like electricity slowing etc) What I don't see is what level adjust you would incur. It states challenge rating +3 - but challenge rating and level adjust are almost completely independant, so is there any recommendation here? Also - anything else I have missed ?
Morwen 05-02-07, 09:22 PM	It doesn't have a level adjustment provided. In most cases, this is because the designers don't think it is suitable for use by a PC. It's not complete magical immunity, by the way. It's only immunity to spells that have "SR: yes". Any spell that doesn't require a spell resistance check is still good to go :)
runestar 05-02-07, 10:45 PM	In game terms, this means you cannot benefit from buff spells like fly or haste. No healing spells for you either. But foes are still free to smack you around with orb spells.;)
Sunchilde 05-02-07, 10:57 PM	LoL - well I would guess that you couldn't be affected by haste and such - but as a non-construct . . . and no healing . . . ouchies. That would hurt. Hmmm. But regardless - other than the fact that Wizards doesn't think you should do it - how would you do it? Maybe I should post this in houserules - but I would like to see where this goes really.
runestar 05-02-07, 11:24 PM	I might play another construct race, perhaps a warforged or maug, which are less problematic. :P
bobothechimp 05-02-07, 11:35 PM	It is not intended for use as a race, and I would have to suggest it not to be used as one. If it was allowed, it would have an extremely high level adjustment, no less than +5 in my opinion, and completely ruin the balance of the party. On the point of Half-golems being unaffected by positive spells, look at the description for Spell Immunity. Spell Immunity A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity. And then Spell Resistance Spell Resistance (Other unimportant stuff) A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity). (Took these out to save space) So he technically could intentionally lower Spell Immunity to have certain spells cast on him.
runestar 05-03-07, 10:41 PM	Spell immunity is essentially infinite spell resistance. I doubt you could lower infinite sr. -X(some arbitrarily high number) from infinite sr, and you still have infinite sr left over...:P
Burgundy Lotus 05-04-07, 08:10 AM	I believe the 'Cannot be overcome' statement means that you cannot voluntarily lower it to benefit from helpful spells. This is why the Repair spells (used to heal constructs) have: SR no listed while the Cure spells have: SR yes (harmless)
olshanski_home 05-04-07, 09:11 AM	I agree with Burgandy Lotus. It cannot be overcome. That is the statement that overrides "can voluntarily lower spell resistance". The point of golems is that they are uneffected by magic.
Enigmous 05-04-07, 06:02 PM	There is an ECL calculator for that sorta stuff. Just put in the stats.
Enigmous 05-04-07, 06:06 PM	I got the ECL at 4.2 after I put all the stats I saw in. So it would have a CR +4, maybe less because of the chance to go insane.
endofdreams 05-04-07, 06:09 PM	I asked a similair question on the character optimization boards under Ask a simple question, Get a simple asnwer, page 156. I was linked to a file that had readjusted MM2 for a more 3.5 environment. The Half Golem remained the same, except for updating the golems abilities with the 3.5 versions, though Monster of legend was raised to +7 LA Out of curiosity, where are the ECL claculators?
Morwen 05-06-07, 06:59 PM	I was linked to a file that had readjusted MM2 for a more 3.5 environment. The Half Golem remained the same, except for updating the golems abilities with the 3.5 versions, though Monster of legend was raised to +7 LA It wasn't raised to +7; it was given +7. It didn't have an LA at all in the book itself (just like Half-Golem).
endofdreams 05-06-07, 07:32 PM	It wasn't raised to +7; it was given +7. which was higher than non-existent, so it rose from its original value. _________________________ it isn't mentioned in the link, but did the immuities to piercing and slashing damage change?
tos_shai_hulud 05-06-07, 11:46 PM	Non-existant means not meant for a player character. Typically, it is for templates or races that would be epic if they were given a level adjustment. You will notice that no creature that is playable starts with an ECL above 20 unless you have a base creature that you apply templates to. You can play an Astral Deva ECL 20, but the Solar is considered not appropriate for a PC. If you look, all of the creatures have caps at ECL 20, so if the template did not have a Level Adjustment, chances are, it would have brought a creature to above ECL 20. So bringing the Level Adjustment down to +7 seems accurate to me.