Headband of Intellect and bonus spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Headband of Intellect and bonus spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SiCK_Boy
06-28-07, 10:35 AM Does an increase in Intelligence via a Headband of Intellect allows a wizards access to extra bonus spells because of a higher intelligence score? Same question for items boosting wisdom or charisma, applied to clerics or sorcerers?
Saric
06-28-07, 11:49 AM Yeah, as long as they have it on for the next 24 hours and get their rest period. Wearing bandannas and jewelry never felt so good ;).

Remember as long as its from a semi-permanant source such as that one, it would apply.
Kouk
06-28-07, 11:57 AM Yes, you can even utilize permanent magic items to learn spells of higher levels than your natural intelligence or charisma would allow.

You're screwed if someone Dispels your headband though, because you would lose those higher level spells until it was not suppressed, and the spell slots would probably count as used so you would have to rest again to regain them.
Leilond
06-28-07, 03:38 PM Yes, but if for some reason you lose the band effect for a single instant (because you remove it, or someone dispell it, or you pass trought an antimagic field) you'll lose all the "bonus spell" and you'll need to rest again if you want them back
Dragom
06-28-07, 10:29 PM It is the point of the item. On the other hand though... What about the skill points as you level? Now that's one I always felt odd about.
Mystic Lemur
06-28-07, 11:31 PM That is tricky... I think that technically, yes. You would get them, but as with bonus spells would lose them if you lost the bonus. Kind of like having a feat you no longer meet the prerequisites for...

Probably enough of a headache for both player and DM that it is easier to say no.

ETA, thank you for clarifying about the skills. No you never get increased skills.

Didn't know they had changed that about Fox's cunning, though.
Dragom
06-28-07, 11:52 PM "Ohh a +6 headband of intellect! Goodbye +2 headband of Intellect, you've been with my for 5 levels! I'll miss you!"

*Switch*

"I just forgot how to speak 5 languages!"
Crimson_Concerto
06-29-07, 12:13 AM For the sake of simplicity and common sense, without knowing of any official ruling, I'd have to say that the wearer of a Headband of Intellect gains neither bonus spells nor skill points, if only because the Fox's Cunning spell used in its creation states that it doesn't provide either, and usually it and its relative spells are used as the base effect in discussions of enhancement bonuses to ability scores...
ravenshrike
06-29-07, 12:18 AM You get spells, but no skill points. If someone targets your frigging headband, let them, and for an area dispel it should never get to second level spells at high level.
Dragom
06-29-07, 12:19 AM Limiting the item to effecting spell DC's and maximum level spell castable and removing it's value for bonus spells as well as skill spoints. Making it a far less effective item then a belt of strength, that affects hit, damage, weight load and break DC.

Saying it has no effect on skill points gained is common sense, Saying it has no effect on bonus spells is a bit much.

And yes I wanted someone to agree with me on the skill points thing.
Anguirus23
06-29-07, 12:26 AM From the SRD:

Headband of Intellect: This device is a light cord with a small gem set so that it rests upon the forehead of the wearer. The headband adds to the wearer’s Intelligence score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6. This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.
Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, fox’s cunning; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).
Kouk
06-29-07, 02:09 AM Items can't grant you more skill points. I believe that the rule is also printed somewhere else besides in the description of the item, but that would be hidden somewhere.
Merestil Haye
06-29-07, 02:54 AM Items can't grant you more skill points. I believe that the rule is also printed somewhere else besides in the description of the item, but that would be hidden somewhere.It's in the rules on levelling up, where it also states that ability damage does not affect skillpoints on levelling up, but ability drain does.

Modifiers to an ability score affect that score for all purposes that the effect itself or the rules do not explicitly deny. Thus you can never get bonus spells from Fox's Cunning, because the spell says you can't - even if someone casts the spell on you and makes it last a day or longer. However, the Headband grants you the spell because it does not say it doesn't.
KhosatralKhel
06-30-07, 10:29 PM Interesting. My party contains a dread necromancer who is a habitual user of mushroom powder and liquid pain when he can get it. If he took Vow of Decadence (Drow) to evade overdosing, I bet he could get the bonus spells in addition to say a cloak of charisma.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SiCK_Boy 06-28-07, 10:35 AM	Does an increase in Intelligence via a Headband of Intellect allows a wizards access to extra bonus spells because of a higher intelligence score? Same question for items boosting wisdom or charisma, applied to clerics or sorcerers?
Saric 06-28-07, 11:49 AM	Yeah, as long as they have it on for the next 24 hours and get their rest period. Wearing bandannas and jewelry never felt so good ;). Remember as long as its from a semi-permanant source such as that one, it would apply.
Kouk 06-28-07, 11:57 AM	Yes, you can even utilize permanent magic items to learn spells of higher levels than your natural intelligence or charisma would allow. You're screwed if someone Dispels your headband though, because you would lose those higher level spells until it was not suppressed, and the spell slots would probably count as used so you would have to rest again to regain them.
Leilond 06-28-07, 03:38 PM	Yes, but if for some reason you lose the band effect for a single instant (because you remove it, or someone dispell it, or you pass trought an antimagic field) you'll lose all the "bonus spell" and you'll need to rest again if you want them back
Dragom 06-28-07, 10:29 PM	It is the point of the item. On the other hand though... What about the skill points as you level? Now that's one I always felt odd about.
Mystic Lemur 06-28-07, 11:31 PM	That is tricky... I think that technically, yes. You would get them, but as with bonus spells would lose them if you lost the bonus. Kind of like having a feat you no longer meet the prerequisites for... Probably enough of a headache for both player and DM that it is easier to say no. ETA, thank you for clarifying about the skills. No you never get increased skills. Didn't know they had changed that about Fox's cunning, though.
Dragom 06-28-07, 11:52 PM	"Ohh a +6 headband of intellect! Goodbye +2 headband of Intellect, you've been with my for 5 levels! I'll miss you!" Switch "I just forgot how to speak 5 languages!"
Crimson_Concerto 06-29-07, 12:13 AM	For the sake of simplicity and common sense, without knowing of any official ruling, I'd have to say that the wearer of a Headband of Intellect gains neither bonus spells nor skill points, if only because the Fox's Cunning spell used in its creation states that it doesn't provide either, and usually it and its relative spells are used as the base effect in discussions of enhancement bonuses to ability scores...
ravenshrike 06-29-07, 12:18 AM	You get spells, but no skill points. If someone targets your frigging headband, let them, and for an area dispel it should never get to second level spells at high level.
Dragom 06-29-07, 12:19 AM	Limiting the item to effecting spell DC's and maximum level spell castable and removing it's value for bonus spells as well as skill spoints. Making it a far less effective item then a belt of strength, that affects hit, damage, weight load and break DC. Saying it has no effect on skill points gained is common sense, Saying it has no effect on bonus spells is a bit much. And yes I wanted someone to agree with me on the skill points thing.
Anguirus23 06-29-07, 12:26 AM	From the SRD: Headband of Intellect: This device is a light cord with a small gem set so that it rests upon the forehead of the wearer. The headband adds to the wearer’s Intelligence score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6. This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points. Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, fox’s cunning; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).
Kouk 06-29-07, 02:09 AM	Items can't grant you more skill points. I believe that the rule is also printed somewhere else besides in the description of the item, but that would be hidden somewhere.
Merestil Haye 06-29-07, 02:54 AM	Items can't grant you more skill points. I believe that the rule is also printed somewhere else besides in the description of the item, but that would be hidden somewhere.It's in the rules on levelling up, where it also states that ability damage does not affect skillpoints on levelling up, but ability drain does. Modifiers to an ability score affect that score for all purposes that the effect itself or the rules do not explicitly deny. Thus you can never get bonus spells from Fox's Cunning, because the spell says you can't - even if someone casts the spell on you and makes it last a day or longer. However, the Headband grants you the spell because it does not say it doesn't.
KhosatralKhel 06-30-07, 10:29 PM	Interesting. My party contains a dread necromancer who is a habitual user of mushroom powder and liquid pain when he can get it. If he took Vow of Decadence (Drow) to evade overdosing, I bet he could get the bonus spells in addition to say a cloak of charisma.