Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragosteaChiroptera 07-21-07, 10:41 AM	Hey there, I'm an experienced DM (white wolf mostly, but other systems as well) who is just new to DMing D&D. I've played before, but never run a specific D&D campaign until now. I'm running into an issue that I haven't encountered before: Players not being creative. I told them they chould make their characters up to 15th level using templates/prestige classes (all with permission), but that with that power, I expected some creativity and "curve balls" with regard to our challenges. They don't seem to know the meaning of "retreat" or "don't attack this guy directly because you'll die". And when they do attack the obviously stronger than they are critter (who is not attacking them, he's a pit fiend acting as a guard) they complain that the challenge was too hard. 4 level 15s against a slightly buffed pit fiend is a tough challenge, I agree. He's way easier if you choose not to fight him. I'm also running into the problem of one of the characters being significantly minimaxed more than the others. He's the most likely of the players to complain, but he's important to the group. THoughts? Thanks
Marcus Majarra 07-21-07, 01:25 PM	These questions would be better suited for the "What's a DM to do?" forum.
mvincent 07-23-07, 04:45 PM	These questions would be better suited for the "What's a DM to do?" forum.Agreed. From a strict rules perspective, D&D is designed to be balanced so that PC's face mostly only suitable challenges, so you can't fault your players for expecting this. Best to specifically tell them if it will be otherwise. Also, by the rules a CR 20 might still be suitable for a 15th level group, but if that creature is buffed and/or surprises them, then expect a possible TPK. Best to start with smaller encounters (to allow the players some experience with their PC's abilities before taking on tough challenges).
Kouk 07-25-07, 03:54 AM	What are the backgrounds of the players? It may be a mistake to start them at 15th level, especially if you are not very experienced with high levels yourself. Generally, new players learn their limits by starting low and working their way up, so if you just drop level 15 on them, they will have no idea what they are capable of. Even if a player is not new, just dropping a high level character on a player that has no experience with that particular class will result in him having no idea what he is actually capable of. A player that has only ever played a fighter will likely not be able to effectively play a wizard right off the bat. This is why the DMG (or maybe DMG2) suggests starting campaigns at low levels, so players understand their characters. The best way to deal with "foolishness" on the part of the players is to flatly tell them all that in your campaign, there will be fights that cannot be won head on, and that not all apparent enemies are supposed to be fought. Also tell them that some fights are just far beyond their capability to succeed in, so they should pick their battles. Depending on the players' past experiences (some DMs run campaigns that are exactly tailored to the PCs strength, so that there is never a fight that is much too hard), and what they are actually looking for in a game (many players play D&D because they love pure combat and rolling dice more than roleplaying) it may not be possible immediately, and so starting at low levels would also be advisable in this instance.
tricky_bob 07-27-07, 02:40 PM	What are the backgrounds of the players? It may be a mistake to start them at 15th level, especially if you are not very experienced with high levels yourself. Generally, new players learn their limits by starting low and working their way up, so if you just drop level 15 on them, they will have no idea what they are capable of. Even if a player is not new, just dropping a high level character on a player that has no experience with that particular class will result in him having no idea what he is actually capable of. A player that has only ever played a fighter will likely not be able to effectively play a wizard right off the bat. This is why the DMG (or maybe DMG2) suggests starting campaigns at low levels, so players understand their characters. The best way to deal with "foolishness" on the part of the players is to flatly tell them all that in your campaign, there will be fights that cannot be won head on, and that not all apparent enemies are supposed to be fought. Also tell them that some fights are just far beyond their capability to succeed in, so they should pick their battles. Depending on the players' past experiences (some DMs run campaigns that are exactly tailored to the PCs strength, so that there is never a fight that is much too hard), and what they are actually looking for in a game (many players play D&D because they love pure combat and rolling dice more than roleplaying) it may not be possible immediately, and so starting at low levels would also be advisable in this instance. In total agreement. Start at a lower level, give the PC's a chance to bond and see how effective each of them is in their particular role. It takes time for a party to work well together and they'll really need to work well together in high encounters respective to their level. I know a player who always just runs in without full thought and consideration regardless of what Class he is playing, needless to say his PC's die regularly!
KrisTheGreat 07-29-07, 02:05 AM	the issue of one player being far more powerful is easy to deal with it one of two ways 1 control the magic items strictly ensuring that the characters that need help to be balanced recieve just the right item to give them there thing that that they are better at 2 and far easier create situations that the players strengths are negated eg having a rouge with elusive target vs the power attack feat fighter