Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hovnarr 09-18-07, 06:34 PM	Hi! In the interest of improving play skill among the members on the site I play on, we're making a quiz to diagnose your general 3.5 rules savviness. I'd like your help in designing 20 questions of varying depth, broadness and difficulty. It should be possible to find all answers in the SRD if you look for them. In fact, some could entail actually quoting the legal basis for your answer. To give some parameters for what type of questions I'm looking for let me give a few examples of a some areas... Combat actions and action types: The questions should anticipate solid knowledge on move actions, standard actions, free actions etc., delaying, readying actions etc. General questions on opposed checks and special attacks. Certain complex attacks like grappling are not necessary to know in great detail. Magic, spells, psionics: The fundamental concepts of line of effect, what differs a burst from a spread, how long dismissing something takes etc. Finer points of power augmentation or meta magic stacking is not question material. Just some examples. I'm sure there are questions that come up here time and time again, and maybe those could be used as a starting point? Thanks for helping out.
Ryusage 09-18-07, 06:40 PM	Attacks of Opportunity. Many a time I've seen these ruled incorrectly by DM and player alike.
hovnarr 09-18-07, 06:46 PM	Sure, that's a good topic for questions, but how would you design the specific question or set of questions?
Marcus Majarra 09-18-07, 10:53 PM	You can always look to RPGA DM entry test questions. Those are pretty rule-intensive.
hovnarr 09-19-07, 02:27 AM	Great, I knew there would be something like this! Had to look it up though, here's an overview: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/hq/newcomers#14 So it looks like the herald-level test is something I should look into. Anyway of getting the questions without having a RPGA account/number? Thanks.
goawayugh 09-19-07, 11:14 AM	I'm very curious in seeing these questions too...
Some_call_me_Tim 09-19-07, 03:26 PM	I'm very curious in seeing these questions too...Actually, reprinting the actual questions are against the rules. To give you an idea, the questions were multiple choice. They generally involved one ruling that relied on multiple modifiers to one question. It is an open-book test, but often required looking up several different rules. The questions can be simple: Bob the Barbarian wants to charge up a sloping 12" wide ice-covered ledge. The balance DC is: a) 10 b) 12 c) 15 d) 17 d) 17 narrow surface DC 10, sloped add +2 to the DC, severely slippery (icy) add +5 more to the DC. N.B. you also must accept a -5 penalty to your roll and roll once for each multiple of your speed you moved. To a bit more complex: A 17th-level cleric of Pelor casts a maximized flame strike on a Mummy Lord who makes his reflex save. How much damage does the Mummy Lord take? a) 40 b) 45 c) 57 d) 67 a) 40 Flame strike can do maximum of 15d6, maximized 90 points of damage. Half is fire (45), half is divine power (45). Mummy Lord makes his save and takes half damage (22 fire, 22 divine). Mummy Lord has fire resistance 10 so fire damage is reduced by 10 (12). However, he is also vulnerable to fire so he takes half again as much (18). 18 fire and 22 divine is 40 points total. Some of them were downright tricky. To be perfectly blunt, I thought a lot of the questions on the RPGA tests were poorly worded and quite a few had the wrong answers (or at least misleading).
hovnarr 09-19-07, 06:26 PM	Thanks for the input. I'm working on something similar. The main difference with my variant is that sometimes, several of the choices may be true and you must then list all of them. It's being run through playtesting and tweaking now. Will probably post it here later when it's a bit more finalized.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-19-07, 08:06 PM	The main difference with my variant is that sometimes, several of the choices may be true and you must then list all of them.Now I know it is a D&D rules quiz--it has several right answers. :rolleyes:
hovnarr 09-20-07, 10:12 AM	Now I know it is a D&D rules quiz--it has several right answers. Lol, yeah. Well, it depends on how you phrase the question really. Here's an example: 9) Under what conditions can a target be sneak attacked? A) If it is helpless. B) If it is stunned. C) If it is dazed. D) If it is cowering. This makes it necessary to know a little bit about the sneak attack mechanic an a little bit about status conditions - or at least know how/where to find the info. EDIT: Also, the quiz I'm designing isn't for DMs, but for players as well - so it should cover both sides.
april151978 09-20-07, 11:44 AM	Try this out... Rules of the Game Archive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg)
hovnarr 09-21-07, 04:40 AM	thanks april, will at least add that link as a reference to quiz applicants. Well, a first run of the quiz revealed that it was a total disaster to have multiple alternatives being correct, so I'm gonna revise the questions to only have 1 correct answer each.
hovnarr 09-21-07, 04:04 PM	Well, we settled on 15 multiple choice questions in the end, with the remaining 5 being much broader questions (omitted). Here they are - only one alternative is correct. Tell me what you think or if you have suggestions for questions of your own: MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTIONS 1) When it comes to action types, which of the following is correct? A) A character with BAB +1 or greater can move, draw a wand and use it - all in one round. B) Drawing and drinking a potion is a standard action. C) You can take a 5' step after you have charged. D) You can sheathe a sword as a free action. 2) A rogue is level 4. How many skill ranks can she have at most in the following skills? A) 8 in Move Silently, 4 in Spellcraft. B) 7 in Hide, 3.5 in Knowledge (Dungeoneering) C) 7 in Use Rope, 3 in Knowledge (Religion) D) 8 in Bluff, 3 in Perform 3) When concerning natural rolls of 1 or 20 on a d20, which of the following is correct? A) If it's an attack roll, 1 is always a miss, and 20 is always a threat. B) If it's a skill roll, 1 is always a failure, and 20 is always a success. C) If it's a saving throw, 1 is always a failure, but 20 isn't always a success. D) If it's an untrained Knowledge skill check, a natural 20 can give you information with a higher DC than 10. 4) Consider a 4th level human fighter with no flaws. How many feats does he have? A) 4 B) 5 C) 6 D) 7 5) What is true of readied actions? A) You can't ready an action in the same turn that you have delayed. B) You can ready a full attack. C) The readied action takes place before the triggering event. D) A readied action is always resolved on your turn. 6) A youthful, level 1 halfling rogue is created using the point buy method. Which of the following is true? A) His maximum Dexterity score is 18, and it will cost him 16 points. B) His maximum Dexterity score is 20, and it will cost him 16 points. C) His maximum Dexterity score is 18, and it will cost him 10 points. D) His maximum Dexterity score is 20, and it will cost him 10 points. 7) Under what conditions can a target be sneak attacked? A) If it is nauseated. B) If it is shaken. C) If it is cowering. D) If it is dazed. 8 ) What is true of flanking? A) If you flank an opponent, you get a +1 bonus to attacks against it. B) If you flank an opponent, you can sneak attack it. C) Hennet the Sorceror could use his cat familiar as a flanking buddy if he wanted to. D) Constructs are immune to flanking. 9) A character is invisible but has been pinpointed by a wolf using its scent ability. What is true? A) The wolf's attack is subject to a 20% miss chance. B) The character gets a +4 bonus to AC. C) The character cannot suffer a critical hit from the wolf. D) The character still enjoys the benefits of full concealment. 10) What is true of psionics? A) A 9th level manifester can spend up to 18 power points on a single power. B) A psychic warrior has a manifester level equal to half his class level. C) An egoist can only learn powers from the egoist discipline list. D) Only psionic creatures and characters can take psionic feats. 11) Which of the following is true? You have line of effect with a spell you're casting: A) Even if your target is behind a solid stone wall. B) Even if your target is behind a transparent Wall of Force. C) Even if your target is on the other side of a Gate. D) Even if you are blinded. 12) When concerning metamagic, it is true that: A) It takes as long for a sorceror to cast an empowered Fireball as it takes for him to cast Summon Swarm. B) Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. C) You can empower a Summon Monster spell to have your summons deal more damage. D) You cannot apply two metamagic feats to the same spell. 13) When it comes to handling sudden falls: A) You can use the Jump skill to treat the fall as if it was shorter. B) You can use the Evasion class ability to take 0 damage from the fall on a successful save. C) Enjoy the benefits of Feather Fall, but only if you have cast it in advance. D) Take half the falling damage if you succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save. 14) Which of these events draws an attack of opportunity? A) Moving into a threatened square. B) Moving out of a threatened square. C) Drinking a potion if an opponent has a loaded crossbow pointed at you. D) Taking a 5' step out of your opponent's threat range and casting a spell thereafter. 15) What is true of tripping? A) You can resolve an attack of opportunity as a trip attempt just like you could with a normal attack. B) You need a special tripping weapon such as a flail to make trip attempts. C) Tripping doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity from your opponent. D) If you successfully trip an opponent, he can immediately attempt to trip you as well from his prone position.
NoldorForce 09-21-07, 09:48 PM	It's mostly good, but there are two problems.8 ) What is true of flanking? A) If you flank an opponent, you get a +1 bonus to attacks against it. B) If you flank an opponent, you can sneak attack it. C) Hennet the Sorceror could use his cat familiar as a flanking buddy if he wanted to. D) Constructs are immune to flanking.Both B and C are correct, though pulling off C is a bad idea for multiple reasons. (By the way, it's sorcerer.)11) Which of the following is true? You have line of effect with a spell you're casting: A) Even if your target is behind a solid stone wall. B) Even if your target is behind a transparent Wall of Force. C) Even if your target is on the other side of a Gate. D) Even if you are blinded.You'll want to be more clear on what "on the other side of a Gate" means; this could be interpreted as being on the other end of the portal created by a Gate, in which case the spell implicitly says that you have line of effect. D is correct, considering that line of effect is also used for AoE spells (in which case you don't need to target someone to affect them). You don't have a line of sight, however.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-21-07, 11:53 PM	OK now to answer the questions like a pedantic rules weasel. 1) When it comes to action types, which of the following is correct? A) A character with BAB +1 or greater can move, draw a wand and use it - all in one round. B) Drawing and drinking a potion is a standard action. C) You can take a 5' step after you have charged. D) You can sheathe a sword as a free action.A) is more correct but technically you can only draw a wand (if it is carried in easy reach) during the move. 2) A rogue is level 4. How many skill ranks can she have at most in the following skills? A) 8 in Move Silently, 4 in Spellcraft. B) 7 in Hide, 3.5 in Knowledge (Dungeoneering) C) 7 in Use Rope, 3 in Knowledge (Religion) D) 8 in Bluff, 3 in PerformB) is the answer you are looking for. Of course, my gnoll rogue could have more. I said I was gonna be a pedantic rules weasel. 3) When concerning natural rolls of 1 or 20 on a d20, which of the following is correct? A) If it's an attack roll, 1 is always a miss, and 20 is always a threat. B) If it's a skill roll, 1 is always a failure, and 20 is always a success. C) If it's a saving throw, 1 is always a failure, but 20 isn't always a success. D) If it's an untrained Knowledge skill check, a natural 20 can give you information with a higher DC than 10.A) 4) Consider a 4th level human fighter with no flaws. How many feats does he have? A) 4 B) 5 C) 6 D) 7C) Again to be technical to a fault, he has three feats and three fighter bonus feats. 5) What is true of readied actions? A) You can't ready an action in the same turn that you have delayed. B) You can ready a full attack. C) The readied action takes place before the triggering event. D) A readied action is always resolved on your turn. C) however if you ready to interrupt a spell it doesn't take place before but rather during the casting of the spell. You might want to rephrase that "before the triggering action is resolved." 6) A youthful, level 1 halfling rogue is created using the point buy method. Which of the following is true? A) His maximum Dexterity score is 18, and it will cost him 16 points. B) His maximum Dexterity score is 20, and it will cost him 16 points. C) His maximum Dexterity score is 18, and it will cost him 10 points. D) His maximum Dexterity score is 20, and it will cost him 10 points.Nothing in the rules explicitly limit an ability score. The table only goes to 18 but the rules just say the scores higher than 14 cost more. B) 7) Under what conditions can a target be sneak attacked? A) If it is nauseated. B) If it is shaken. C) If it is cowering. D) If it is dazed.All of them (provided the attack is invisible). Better to say what condition allows a target to be sneak attacked. C) is what you want. 8 ) What is true of flanking? A) If you flank an opponent, you get a +1 bonus to attacks against it. B) If you flank an opponent, you can sneak attack it. C) Hennet the Sorceror could use his cat familiar as a flanking buddy if he wanted to. D) Constructs are immune to flanking.B) and C) are correct answer. A cat might not have reach but a tiny creature in an enemy's square provides flanking to all allies. Also there is no rules term 'flanking buddy.' While generally understood it poor wording. 9) A character is invisible but has been pinpointed by a wolf using its scent ability. What is true? A) The wolf's attack is subject to a 20% miss chance. B) The character gets a +4 bonus to AC. C) The character cannot suffer a critical hit from the wolf. D) The character still enjoys the benefits of full concealment.D) 10) What is true of psionics? A) A 9th level manifester can spend up to 18 power points on a single power. B) A psychic warrior has a manifester level equal to half his class level. C) An egoist can only learn powers from the egoist discipline list. D) Only psionic creatures and characters can take psionic feats.Psionics are not core, so I don't care. :-) 11) Which of the following is true? You have line of effect with a spell you're casting: A) Even if your target is behind a solid stone wall. B) Even if your target is behind a transparent Wall of Force. C) Even if your target is on the other side of a Gate. D) Even if you are blinded.D) is probably the answer you want although C) can be considered true as well. 12) When concerning metamagic, it is true that: A) It takes as long for a sorceror to cast an empowered Fireball as it takes for him to cast Summon Swarm. B) Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. C) You can empower a Summon Monster spell to have your summons deal more damage. D) You cannot apply two metamagic feats to the same spell.B) That should properly read metamagic feats. 13) When it comes to handling sudden falls: A) You can use the Jump skill to treat the fall as if it was shorter. B) You can use the Evasion class ability to take 0 damage from the fall on a successful save. C) Enjoy the benefits of Feather Fall, but only if you have cast it in advance. D) Take half the falling damage if you succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save.None of the above. :confused: 14) Which of these events draws an attack of opportunity? A) Moving into a threatened square. B) Moving out of a threatened square. C) Drinking a potion if an opponent has a loaded crossbow pointed at you. D) Taking a 5' step out of your opponent's threat range and casting a spell thereafter. B) is the best answer. Although C) could use the crossbow as an improvised melee weapon and slap you upside the head if he was adjacent. If you use the withdraw action or tumble then B) isn't correct either. 15) What is true of tripping? A) You can resolve an attack of opportunity as a trip attempt just like you could with a normal attack. B) You need a special tripping weapon such as a flail to make trip attempts. C) Tripping doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity from your opponent. D) If you successfully trip an opponent, he can immediately attempt to trip you as well from his prone position. Technically, a trip attack doesn't provoke, it is the unarmed melee touch attack to initiate it that does, so C) is correct, although I assume you wanted the answer A) as that is also correct. Yeah, I know was being a tool about some of the wording but you have to close as many loop holes as you can. Look back at the two examples I posted, I tried to be as specific as possible with which spells, who was the target, who was doing what.
hovnarr 09-22-07, 06:19 AM	Re: Question 8 A cat might not have reach but a tiny creature in an enemy's square provides flanking to all allies. Really? I didn't know that. I thought the 0 reach automatically meant it couldn't be used to grant flanking - EVER. Can you quote rules support so I know where to find it? None of the above (Question 13) You can use Jump to treat the fall as if it was shorter. (you can also do this with Tumble). I'll give some more thought to the other formulations and try to eliminate poor wording as much as possible. Thanks for the help!
Some_call_me_Tim 09-22-07, 10:14 AM	Re: Question 8 Really? I didn't know that. I thought the 0 reach automatically meant it couldn't be used to grant flanking - EVER. Can you quote rules support so I know where to find it?Its covered under the heading of 'Mixing It Up' (DMG 29). Basically, a creature two size categories apart (tiny vs. medium or larger creature) can occupy the same square. When it does it provides flanking to all creatures outside the opponent's space. (Question 13) You can use Jump to treat the fall as if it was shorter. (you can also do this with Tumble). If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell.I wouldn't think a "sudden fall" would count as jumping down.
hovnarr 09-22-07, 10:45 AM	If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump or Tumble check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge. I interpreted this as the deliberate jumping and use of tumble/jump were distinct sources of damage reduction. That is, you use either that apply. But I can see from reading the text now how tumble/jump could presuppose jumping deliberately. Anyway, I'll change it to something else to throw any ambiguity out of the window. Such technalities should not make or break the questions.
NoldorForce 09-22-07, 11:21 AM	Its covered under the heading of 'Mixing It Up' (DMG 29). Basically, a creature two size categories apart (tiny vs. medium or larger creature) can occupy the same square. When it does it provides flanking to all creatures outside the opponent's space.Do you have a PHB handy? You're right that the DMG says this (the errata doesn't touch it)...but the SRD says some different stuff. That's a bit odd, don't you think?
Some_call_me_Tim 09-22-07, 12:54 PM	I interpreted this as the deliberate jumping and use of tumble/jump were distinct sources of damage reduction. That is, you use either that apply. But I can see from reading the text now how tumble/jump could presuppose jumping deliberately.I've always taken as if you intentionally jump down you can use jump and/or tumble, if you fall or pushed you can only tumble. The tumble skill just says treat a fall as ten feet shorter, it doesn't stipulate intentionally or not; unlike the jump skill description. So, at my table a PC can jump down 20' and with a DC 15 jump check and DC 15 tumble check take no damage. Although the SRD section on falling doesn't specifically say you can do both when giving examples of jumping down 30 feet. A better question might be: A halfling rogue jumps off a 20' high rooftop. The player rolls a 17 for the halfling's tumble check to reduce the damage taken from the fall. How much damage does the halfling rogue take? a) no damage b) 1d6 non-lethal damage c) 1d6 lethal damage d) 1d6 non-lethal and 1d6 lethal damage e) 2d6 lethal damage I know you were trying to have a more general question, but the less specific the question the more likely can be misinterpreted.
Sildatorak 09-22-07, 01:06 PM	I've always taken as if you intentionally jump down you can use jump and/or tumble, if you fall or pushed you can only tumble.This is the way I've ruled it. Also, D if the surface is hard, E if he's jumping onto a yielding surface.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-22-07, 01:42 PM	Do you have a PHB handy? You're right that the DMG says this (the errata doesn't touch it)...but the SRD says some different stuff. That's a bit odd, don't you think?Agreed, it is odd. The Player's Handbook does state that creatures with a natural reach of 0 feet "can't flank an enemy." It also doesn't mention any of the information from 'Mixing It Up" in the DMG. I've interpreted that to mean, creatures with 0 feet reach can't flank in the normal way. I suppose a pedantic rules lawyer DM could point to that and say "it can't happen, see right here and the PHB trumps the DMG." However, the rules are full of exceptions to other rules, so I always interpreted that every rule comes with the implicit disclaimer: "unless stated otherwise." I'm not sure why this section isn't in the SRD. Oversight, intentional, who knows. The FAQ (65) gives an example that contradicts one of the those given in the DMG. I would consider the DMG (with errata) as the primary source and the FAQ as a secondary source it this case. I hate to say it, but sometimes a "magic 8-ball" is more accurate than the FAQ. Personally, I like the rules for "mixing it up," a gnome giant slayer suddenly becomes more lively as he dashes through a giant's legs shouting, "Death from below!" Much more cinematic than ruling he can't do that. From all my third edition games I can only remember one halfling using this tactic.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-22-07, 02:05 PM	This is the way I've ruled it. Also, D if the surface is hard, E if he's jumping onto a yielding surface.Very good, you weaselly rules shyster. :D (I mean that in a most respectful way) Your rules-fu is strong, but it is no match for my petty-bickering style. :monk: A yielding surface would be f) 2d6 nonlethal damage. Before someone says it, if he jumped into water the answer would a) no damage with the successful tumble check. Curses foiled again. See, I said writing them wasn't easy, I didn't say I could actually do any better. A even better question might be: A halfling rogue jumps off a 20' high rooftop onto a cobblestone street. The player rolls a 17 for the halfling's tumble check to reduce the damage taken from the fall. How much damage does the halfling rogue take? a) no damage b) 1d6 nonlethal damage c) 1d6 lethal damage d) 1d6 nonlethal and 1d6 lethal damage e) 2d6 lethal damage f) 2d6 nonlethal damage Should I state that this is in an anti-magic zone before somebody comes along and says, "a) no damage because he is wearing a ring of featherfalling." :waits:
Sildatorak 09-22-07, 02:54 PM	A yielding surface would be f) 2d6 nonlethal damage. :embarrass My rules-fu may be strong, but apparently my "inserting 'non-' mentally where it should be without even realizing it"-fu is stronger.
goawayugh 09-24-07, 04:42 PM	I'm surprised no one pointed this out yet: 1) When it comes to action types, which of the following is correct? A) A character with BAB +1 or greater can move, draw a wand and use it - all in one round. B) Drawing and drinking a potion is a standard action. C) You can take a 5' step after you have charged. D) You can sheathe a sword as a free action. You can draw a weapon as part of a move, not any item. A wand is not a weapon.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-24-07, 05:25 PM	I'm surprised no one pointed this out yet:'Cause ain't nothing wrong with it. You can draw a weapon as part of a move, not any item. A wand is not a weapon. :teach: To wit:Draw or Sheathe a Weapon: Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.[emphasis added] I suppose an alternative reading of the section that makes this a free action if you have a BAB of +1 or greater, might apply only to drawing weapons and not to weapon-like objects. I think that is entirely too restrictive.
goawayugh 09-24-07, 07:09 PM	Hmmmm...I've read that section many times and never really noticed that. Considering that the explanation of drawing a weapon as part of a move for free is in the same section as talking about weapon-like items, then I guess it would apply. Ok......oops, me wrong.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-24-07, 07:28 PM	Hmmmm...I've read that section many times and never really noticed that.It's one of those really obscure little points that get lost. A lot of people skip over where it says you draw a weapon as a free action, but not sheathe one. My favorite obscure ruling is "If you attempt a Jump check untrained, you land prone unless you beat the DC by 5 or more." I haven't seen any tables use that one...except mine. Usually a nasty little surprise. :evillaugh
hovnarr 09-26-07, 06:38 AM	Ooh, nice find Tim. Now I have a reason to devote a rank to Jump when designing characters. Not that any DM I know of would fully grasp the stroke of genius of doing so, but that's life for the true D&D rules afficionado. We have to... um, stroke our own geniuses.