Help on grapple - escape from [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help on grapple - escape from [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chava
04-06-07, 04:15 AM OK, breaking free from a grapple -

Using escape artist is a full-round action

Using a grapple check is "standard action as an attack"

SO, does this mean that the person who is being grappled can expand the escaping into a full-round action to get iterative attempts to free himself?

If so does the grapple get penalized for iterative attacks (-5 on the 2nd, -10 on the third) like an attack action or is all attempts to free oneself at your highest grapple bonus?

Any and all rules and the reasoning please...

Can't believe they didn't cover this in the Rules of the Game - four part series on grappling....
Leilond
04-06-07, 07:20 AM Using "escape artist" is a "standard action"
Usually characters with "escape artist" have good values in "tumble", so these characters use a standard action to free from grapple and a move action to tumble away

From SRD

Escape from Grapple

You can escape a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don’t have to try to hold you if they don’t want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent(s).
Krispieman
04-06-07, 07:29 AM The way my group has always read it, and plays it, is that using Grapple checks to escape are treated as regular attacks. Meaning the 1st escape attempt is at full BAB + Str (+ misc. mods), the 2nd is at BAB -5 + Str (+ misc. mods), the 3rd at BAB -10, etc.
To escape from multiple grapplers, your one check has to beat all the other checks, as quoted by Leilond. The counter roll is always at highest BAB. This means your chances of escaping go down quite a bit with iterative attempts.

Using Escape Artist is, as pointed out, a standard action, not a full-round one. Also, because it's a skill, there are more ways to increase it. This makes it easier to use for those classes that don't have full BAB or a high Str (Monk/Rogue) but still tend to come into Grapple situations more often.

Wizards and other squishy characters should just run away, or have Freedom of Movement ready.

Hope this helps.

K-man :cool:
meabolex
04-06-07, 12:50 PM Using escape artist is a full-round action

Standard action, as mentioned.

Using a grapple check is "standard action as an attack"

When you could normally make an attack, you can substitute a grapple check instead.

SO, does this mean that the person who is being grappled can expand the escaping into a full-round action to get iterative attempts to free himself?

If you mean using a full round action to deliver all attacks in a full attack granted to you by a high base attack bonus, yes.

If so does the grapple get penalized for iterative attacks (-5 on the 2nd, -10 on the third) like an attack action or is all attempts to free oneself at your highest grapple bonus?

The base attack bonus drops as normal for iterative attacks in a full attack.

Can't believe they didn't cover this in the Rules of the Game - four part series on grappling....

From Grappling Part II
Many of these maneuvers take the place of an attack (rather than being standard actions or move actions). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these maneuvers in place of each of your attacks, but you use successively lower attack bonuses to resolve any required opposed grapple checks.

From Grappling Part II
Escape from Grapple: You can escape from an opponent's grasp by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If you choose to make an Escape Artist check, your foe still makes a grapple check to oppose your check.

If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result (or Escape Artist check result) has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don't have to try to hold you if they don't want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent or opponents. This movement is part of the attack or standard action you used to escape the grapple. The movement provokes attacks of opportunity from foes who threaten the space you leave, but the movement doesn't count against your speed for the current turn.
Myzery78
04-08-07, 09:37 PM Have to disagree with those saying your grapple check goes down with each attack. While I believe that if you intended to start a grapple with somebody each touch attack to hit would decrease I dont see anything that says that your grapple check for each of those attacks changes.

Also, what does everyone have to say about this line from the SRD:

If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.

While that may make grappling an effective option for a monk(not only do you get to restrict your opponent, you dont even do any less damage) it scares the hell out of me as a DM. It essentially gives every monster out there with improved grapple a constrict effect(though a lesser one, but 1d2-1d4 +str can still really hurt). Thoughts? Comments?
tos_shai_hulud
04-08-07, 11:16 PM Myzery78,

Please see the post directly above yours. It gives you a quote from Wizards. If you still say that you don't see where the rules say that each grapple check is at a successive -5 penalty, please read the post above yours again. It is quoted directly from [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050308a]Rules of the Game[/quote].

Also, grappling is not all fun and games. While grappling, you may be able to deal damage to your opponent, but you do not control the grapple unless you have a pin. On your opponent's turn, he can deal his unarmed strike damage to you with a successful grapple check. It is only beneficial if your grapple modifier is higher than your opponent's. Not to mention that you lose your dexterity modifier to outside attacks. So, if your friendly monster decides to grapple the wizard, unless he kills the wizard quickly, the rogue gets automatic sneak attack, with or without a flank versus this not-too-bright monster.

Constrict is even more dangerous. In addition to normal grapple damage, the constrict damage ALSO applies. So no, the monk's unarmed strike is not like a lesser constrict. It is nothing like constrict at all. Constrict would deal 1d2-1d4 + str (normal grapple damage) + an additional 1d4-2d6+str (constrict damage).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chava 04-06-07, 04:15 AM	OK, breaking free from a grapple - Using escape artist is a full-round action Using a grapple check is "standard action as an attack" SO, does this mean that the person who is being grappled can expand the escaping into a full-round action to get iterative attempts to free himself? If so does the grapple get penalized for iterative attacks (-5 on the 2nd, -10 on the third) like an attack action or is all attempts to free oneself at your highest grapple bonus? Any and all rules and the reasoning please... Can't believe they didn't cover this in the Rules of the Game - four part series on grappling....
Leilond 04-06-07, 07:20 AM	Using "escape artist" is a "standard action" Usually characters with "escape artist" have good values in "tumble", so these characters use a standard action to free from grapple and a move action to tumble away From SRD Escape from Grapple You can escape a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don’t have to try to hold you if they don’t want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent(s).
Krispieman 04-06-07, 07:29 AM	The way my group has always read it, and plays it, is that using Grapple checks to escape are treated as regular attacks. Meaning the 1st escape attempt is at full BAB + Str (+ misc. mods), the 2nd is at BAB -5 + Str (+ misc. mods), the 3rd at BAB -10, etc. To escape from multiple grapplers, your one check has to beat all the other checks, as quoted by Leilond. The counter roll is always at highest BAB. This means your chances of escaping go down quite a bit with iterative attempts. Using Escape Artist is, as pointed out, a standard action, not a full-round one. Also, because it's a skill, there are more ways to increase it. This makes it easier to use for those classes that don't have full BAB or a high Str (Monk/Rogue) but still tend to come into Grapple situations more often. Wizards and other squishy characters should just run away, or have Freedom of Movement ready. Hope this helps. K-man :cool:
meabolex 04-06-07, 12:50 PM	Using escape artist is a full-round action Standard action, as mentioned. Using a grapple check is "standard action as an attack" When you could normally make an attack, you can substitute a grapple check instead. SO, does this mean that the person who is being grappled can expand the escaping into a full-round action to get iterative attempts to free himself? If you mean using a full round action to deliver all attacks in a full attack granted to you by a high base attack bonus, yes. If so does the grapple get penalized for iterative attacks (-5 on the 2nd, -10 on the third) like an attack action or is all attempts to free oneself at your highest grapple bonus? The base attack bonus drops as normal for iterative attacks in a full attack. Can't believe they didn't cover this in the Rules of the Game - four part series on grappling.... From Grappling Part II Many of these maneuvers take the place of an attack (rather than being standard actions or move actions). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these maneuvers in place of each of your attacks, but you use successively lower attack bonuses to resolve any required opposed grapple checks. From Grappling Part II Escape from Grapple: You can escape from an opponent's grasp by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If you choose to make an Escape Artist check, your foe still makes a grapple check to oppose your check. If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result (or Escape Artist check result) has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don't have to try to hold you if they don't want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent or opponents. This movement is part of the attack or standard action you used to escape the grapple. The movement provokes attacks of opportunity from foes who threaten the space you leave, but the movement doesn't count against your speed for the current turn.
Myzery78 04-08-07, 09:37 PM	Have to disagree with those saying your grapple check goes down with each attack. While I believe that if you intended to start a grapple with somebody each touch attack to hit would decrease I dont see anything that says that your grapple check for each of those attacks changes. Also, what does everyone have to say about this line from the SRD: If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike. While that may make grappling an effective option for a monk(not only do you get to restrict your opponent, you dont even do any less damage) it scares the hell out of me as a DM. It essentially gives every monster out there with improved grapple a constrict effect(though a lesser one, but 1d2-1d4 +str can still really hurt). Thoughts? Comments?
tos_shai_hulud 04-08-07, 11:16 PM	Myzery78, Please see the post directly above yours. It gives you a quote from Wizards. If you still say that you don't see where the rules say that each grapple check is at a successive -5 penalty, please read the post above yours again. It is quoted directly from [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050308a]Rules of the Game[/quote]. Also, grappling is not all fun and games. While grappling, you may be able to deal damage to your opponent, but you do not control the grapple unless you have a pin. On your opponent's turn, he can deal his unarmed strike damage to you with a successful grapple check. It is only beneficial if your grapple modifier is higher than your opponent's. Not to mention that you lose your dexterity modifier to outside attacks. So, if your friendly monster decides to grapple the wizard, unless he kills the wizard quickly, the rogue gets automatic sneak attack, with or without a flank versus this not-too-bright monster. Constrict is even more dangerous. In addition to normal grapple damage, the constrict damage ALSO applies. So no, the monk's unarmed strike is not like a lesser constrict. It is nothing like constrict at all. Constrict would deal 1d2-1d4 + str (normal grapple damage) + an additional 1d4-2d6+str (constrict damage).