Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mycroftb 03-25-08, 09:12 PM	The situation: The PCs have successfully used Hide from Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideFromUndead.htm) to avoid a large patrol of wandering zombies. An NPC non-undead druid who apparently wants to see a fight casts Faerie Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/faerieFire.htm) in a burst, hitting some of the PCs, making them glow. Do the zombies now see them? A. Yes - the zombies can see the glowy outline of the affected PCs, even if they can't see the actual PCs, nor can they hear or otherwise perceive of them. B. No - the PCs do have the glowy outline visible to everyone else, but are still 100% hidden from undead, as they still cannot perceive them in any way. Here's the text of the spells (both level 1): Hide from Undead Undead cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Nonintelligent undead creatures are automatically affected and act as though the warded creatures are not there. An intelligent undead creature gets a single Will saving throw. If it fails, the subject can’t see any of the warded creatures. However, if it has reason to believe unseen opponents are present, it can attempt to find or strike them. If a warded creature attempts to turn or command undead, touches an undead creature, or attacks any creature (even with a spell), the spell ends for all recipients. Faerie Fire A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. The light is too dim to have any special effect on undead or dark-dwelling creatures vulnerable to light. The faerie fire can be blue, green, or violet, according to your choice at the time of casting. The faerie fire does not cause any harm to the objects or creatures thus outlined. Any other thoughts or opinions on the matter would be appreciated. If you can, point to or quote sources that would be informative or helpful. Thanks!
runestar 03-26-08, 07:43 AM	Considering that hide from undead is an abjuration spell, and not an illusion spell, I would say that they remain hidden at all costs.:)
GoBackToRussia 03-26-08, 09:32 AM	I would say no - the hide from undead indicates that the PC's are hidden from the zombies, no matter how much light they are giving off - it doesn't say that the zombies don't see them, just that the zombies act as if they are not there. He needs to dispel the effect in order to get them spotted
Evil DM Mk3 03-26-08, 10:02 AM	The zombies cannot see the PCs. All of the examples of beaten spells are Illusions. Abjuration implies a different method behind the spell, rather than making the PCs harder to see it makes them harder to PERCEIVE. If you can't perceive a thing then no amount of glowyness will help.
Fitz10019 03-26-08, 10:17 AM	The PCs should make "Wooooo" noises and a Bluff check. Heh. ;)
Lukas_the_Dead 03-26-08, 11:05 AM	I feel GoBackToRussia gives the best reason. Unless there is a reason for the zombies to attack the glowing fire, the zombies act as if the players are not present.
mycroftb 03-27-08, 10:59 AM	That makes sense. Thanks everyone!