How can I work this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How can I work this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Averroes
12-18-07, 01:18 PM Alright so I've got my group going up against a troupe of bards.
The players are going against a group of performers, Dancer, Juggler ect.

One of them is a Bard/Assassin. Who is the 'actor' of the bunch. The idea is to have the Assassin (with the use of some spells and items) come out of invisibility looking just like one of the players. And either starts a grapple or stab the 'twin' and act like he was the one who was hurt as well.

I guess I know that the other players are going to have to go against the bluff of the actor. But is that it?
Just trying to figure out the best way to work the upcoming rules argument.
darokinblade
12-18-07, 01:44 PM This is an awesome idea and a difficult one to play all at the same time. So first a question:

How much metagaming happens at your table? If it is quite frequent, they are going to come up with something extremely fast.

A few spells come to mind to solve this quickly: Zone of truth, dispel magic, detect evil come to mind immediately. True seeing at much higher levels.

I would suggest talking to the player before the session to get them on board to play it with you to help solve these problems. If you try to force them into it, it will REALLY become difficult. You need their help to make it fun for all.

I would suggest not attacking at first, but instead having the bard appear next to the other player, have another player notice their are two of them, and have them start accusing each other of being false. I might suggest a magic aura spell to make the PC appear as magic to a detect magic spell.

All in all, sweet idea. It will be tough to RP, but very rewarding if it works. If the player in mind is beginning to get bored with his char, you could use this opportunity for swapping out the chars for the bard/assassin. That might be a fun SL on its own. After they realize the assassin traded into the party, they kill it and then have to find their lost party-mate! Fun fun!
Averroes
12-18-07, 02:40 PM There is a good ammount of Meta Gaming at the table (I tried stopping it, but it just made the game *****y, and for the most part I don't mind it)
Couple of things I'm going to do to help prevent it. First since we use Minis' I'm going swap out that character's Mini and use two identical minis for them. That should help confuse people.

Good call on the Magic Aura. I think I can cast that on someone without using up his invisiblity.

Hrm...still some kinks to work out.
Any other ideas?
Vharuck
12-18-07, 03:36 PM Have the player not announce his/her actions, but instead write them down and hand them to you. Then you have both the bard and the PC act simultaneously, with you moving the minis and describing the action. This way the other players can't tell who's who based on matching the actions with the player's words.
Averroes
12-18-07, 04:03 PM Have the player not announce his/her actions, but instead write them down and hand them to you. Then you have both the bard and the PC act simultaneously, with you moving the minis and describing the action. This way the other players can't tell who's who based on matching the actions with the player's words.

Hrm...that's a good idea.
StevenO
12-18-07, 05:52 PM This may not work when one character is just trying to immitate anothers appearance but if working with actual clones you could make the character play both sets but not tell them which is which.
mvincent
12-18-07, 06:33 PM There is a good ammount of Meta Gaming at the table (I tried stopping it, but it just made the game *****y, and for the most part I don't mind it)I'd let them freely meta-game... but simply roll randomly for who they actually attack (regardless of which miniature they say they attack), unless they have some way to determine the difference. I think most players would be ok with that method.

I've even done this with charmed PC's (who had to choose which 'friend' to subdue first) without protest.
DastardlyDan
12-26-07, 01:01 PM Is the assassin using an illusion? If so, I think there's something in the spell rules for the players to get a save against the illusion, and if they succeed in the save, then they disbelieve the illusion and should be able to tell who's the real guy and who's the faker.

Otherwise, go with the previously posted ideas...they're great ones.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Averroes 12-18-07, 01:18 PM	Alright so I've got my group going up against a troupe of bards. The players are going against a group of performers, Dancer, Juggler ect. One of them is a Bard/Assassin. Who is the 'actor' of the bunch. The idea is to have the Assassin (with the use of some spells and items) come out of invisibility looking just like one of the players. And either starts a grapple or stab the 'twin' and act like he was the one who was hurt as well. I guess I know that the other players are going to have to go against the bluff of the actor. But is that it? Just trying to figure out the best way to work the upcoming rules argument.
darokinblade 12-18-07, 01:44 PM	This is an awesome idea and a difficult one to play all at the same time. So first a question: How much metagaming happens at your table? If it is quite frequent, they are going to come up with something extremely fast. A few spells come to mind to solve this quickly: Zone of truth, dispel magic, detect evil come to mind immediately. True seeing at much higher levels. I would suggest talking to the player before the session to get them on board to play it with you to help solve these problems. If you try to force them into it, it will REALLY become difficult. You need their help to make it fun for all. I would suggest not attacking at first, but instead having the bard appear next to the other player, have another player notice their are two of them, and have them start accusing each other of being false. I might suggest a magic aura spell to make the PC appear as magic to a detect magic spell. All in all, sweet idea. It will be tough to RP, but very rewarding if it works. If the player in mind is beginning to get bored with his char, you could use this opportunity for swapping out the chars for the bard/assassin. That might be a fun SL on its own. After they realize the assassin traded into the party, they kill it and then have to find their lost party-mate! Fun fun!
Averroes 12-18-07, 02:40 PM	There is a good ammount of Meta Gaming at the table (I tried stopping it, but it just made the game *****y, and for the most part I don't mind it) Couple of things I'm going to do to help prevent it. First since we use Minis' I'm going swap out that character's Mini and use two identical minis for them. That should help confuse people. Good call on the Magic Aura. I think I can cast that on someone without using up his invisiblity. Hrm...still some kinks to work out. Any other ideas?
Vharuck 12-18-07, 03:36 PM	Have the player not announce his/her actions, but instead write them down and hand them to you. Then you have both the bard and the PC act simultaneously, with you moving the minis and describing the action. This way the other players can't tell who's who based on matching the actions with the player's words.
Averroes 12-18-07, 04:03 PM	Have the player not announce his/her actions, but instead write them down and hand them to you. Then you have both the bard and the PC act simultaneously, with you moving the minis and describing the action. This way the other players can't tell who's who based on matching the actions with the player's words. Hrm...that's a good idea.
StevenO 12-18-07, 05:52 PM	This may not work when one character is just trying to immitate anothers appearance but if working with actual clones you could make the character play both sets but not tell them which is which.
mvincent 12-18-07, 06:33 PM	There is a good ammount of Meta Gaming at the table (I tried stopping it, but it just made the game *****y, and for the most part I don't mind it)I'd let them freely meta-game... but simply roll randomly for who they actually attack (regardless of which miniature they say they attack), unless they have some way to determine the difference. I think most players would be ok with that method. I've even done this with charmed PC's (who had to choose which 'friend' to subdue first) without protest.
DastardlyDan 12-26-07, 01:01 PM	Is the assassin using an illusion? If so, I think there's something in the spell rules for the players to get a save against the illusion, and if they succeed in the save, then they disbelieve the illusion and should be able to tell who's the real guy and who's the faker. Otherwise, go with the previously posted ideas...they're great ones.