How to escape the battlefield? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to escape the battlefield? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Prom
08-22-07, 02:43 AM Hi All,

I have a question, if a party of characters comes across a foe so deadly they need to escape to survive, how can they achieve this?

Do characters have to move faster then the enemy to escape or is there a limit to the battlefield area.

Example, a dwarf could not out-runs a flying dragon, so is there no escape for this PC and death will follow clearly. A human on horse back should be able to out run a Crocodile, so can escape.

Or does the PC just have to get off the battle mat or playing table. Do you limit the battle field or extend it to the front door?

I'm asking this question because a small number of encounter will always be beyond a party, so there must be a wayout, or is this just not important.

Prom
MarkB
08-22-07, 03:48 AM This is not a computer RPG. There are no rigidly-defined patrol routes or arbitrary territory limitations for NPCs. The duration and determination of an enemy's pursuit is whatever the DM thinks would be appropriate to that creature.

If you, as a DM, include encounters that are beyond a party's power, it's your responsibility to include opportunities for them to retreat - there's no game mechanic that will do it for you.
Phrennzy
08-22-07, 10:58 AM The question to consider is: Why would there be pursuit?

A crocodile is only going to chase its prey for a short distance before giving up. It will want to return to the safety of the water and/or the personal space of it's hunting ground.

If someone broke into your home, and you were able to scare them out by coming at them with a baseball bat, how far would you chase them? Out the door? Down the block? Until you collapsed from the run?

Would the dragon pursue the dwarf? Is it worth his time? Is it possible the dwarf is leading him into a trap? Are other thieves going to ransack his treasure while he is chasing the dwarf?

Base pursuit on the reason for the pursuit.
Prom
08-23-07, 05:02 PM Hi MarkB and Phrennzy,

Thanks for your input, everything you have said makes sense to me.

Posted by MarkB,
If you, as a DM, include encounters that are beyond a party's power, it's your responsibility to include opportunities for them to retreat - there's no game mechanic that will do it for you.

I good point, I know this sounds like simple stuff. So thanks again for your time.
heffroncm
08-23-07, 08:15 PM As for the dragon, they are traditionally held to be easily enraged and quick to seek vengeance. It's quite likely, if the Dwarf actually did some damage, that the Dragon would chase him for an hour or more. As long as it seemed the Dragon had a chance of catching the Dwarf, that is.

At least, most Chromatic dragons would probably act this way. Maybe not a Black. It's all down to the individual monster.
Alyss
08-24-07, 06:13 AM Some monsters might pursue a PC for years, but not neccerrily by just running after him. Teleporting demons and so on...
CzarGarrett
08-24-07, 09:03 AM If the dwarf knew there was a Dragon in the area, he might have dug some sort of tunnel escape, so that he could get underground and away from the dragon.
eamon
08-24-07, 10:48 AM Given that a Dragon, when flying and "running" can reach a speed of 600ft per round, that dwarf won't have an hour to get away. Techniques like invisibility, hiding in a hole too small for the dragon (yet deep enough to escape its breath), teleportation, bluffing and running away before the dragon has a reason to chase you far are all potential means to get away. It's not going to be easy though, so unless the PC's are prepared to run away, and have given that some thought in advance, it's unlikely to be successful. They could always split up to minimize casualties...
primemover003
08-24-07, 04:26 PM Invisibility and dragons isn't a good tactic... they have blindsight.
Prom
08-24-07, 05:53 PM Hi All,

I had thought that potions of fly might help a party against non-flying creatures, but this still assumes that the enemy does not follow the PC far.

I can see dragons being very difficult to escape from for a PC.

CzarGarrett isn't a Dragon likely to still hear or see a party hiding in a hole and just wait them out. Provided the Dragon really wants them. Digging an escape hole before-hand seems like a noisy process to perform close to a Dragon den.

eamon, you are right a dragon fly's so fast how could anyone run away. Splitting the party up does sound like a good plan, but my just extend the time it takes for PC's to get eatten.

primemover003, I tend to agree. Besides even if the dragon can't see the PC it may still hear them or even smell them (more likely).

Well thankfully dragons don't show up that often and it is one of the worst situations.

Prom
eamon
08-24-07, 09:48 PM Invisibility and dragons isn't a good tactic... they have blindsight.

It's true, and it's a problem - but blindsight only extends to 60ft, whereas a dragon has a 150ft fly speed (and that's without diving, charging or running) - which means that in many combats, the dragon will often be more than 60ft away quite frequently - and since a dragon can't turn around instantly in flight, you have a pretty good chance of hiding. Especially if you're the party wizard and the dragon still has that "nasty" Half-Orc barbarian to eat first, who's all the more visible since you so helpfully "Enlarged" him first ;-)...

Anyways; invisibility is less useful but not useless against dragons.
Kaldric
08-28-07, 04:18 AM It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a line on the tactics part of the encounter when you create it that dictates how long, if at all, the monster/npc will chase the party assuming the party runs, and why the monster/npc will chase them that long, if at all.

"This beholder is incredibly vindictive and evil, but is also cowardly and paranoid. It will chase the party to the edge of its territory, and then immediately retreat back to its lair, fearing a trap if it leaves the area that it feels it controls."

"The mother bear will attack anyone who moves within a 100 ft. radius of her cubs, and continue to attack them unless they are outside the 100 ft radius and currently moving away. If the characters stop moving away while still in her sight, she will attack again."

"The worg-pack is starving to death, and will track and attack the party until they have fed, on their own dead or on party members."

That kind of thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prom 08-22-07, 02:43 AM	Hi All, I have a question, if a party of characters comes across a foe so deadly they need to escape to survive, how can they achieve this? Do characters have to move faster then the enemy to escape or is there a limit to the battlefield area. Example, a dwarf could not out-runs a flying dragon, so is there no escape for this PC and death will follow clearly. A human on horse back should be able to out run a Crocodile, so can escape. Or does the PC just have to get off the battle mat or playing table. Do you limit the battle field or extend it to the front door? I'm asking this question because a small number of encounter will always be beyond a party, so there must be a wayout, or is this just not important. Prom
MarkB 08-22-07, 03:48 AM	This is not a computer RPG. There are no rigidly-defined patrol routes or arbitrary territory limitations for NPCs. The duration and determination of an enemy's pursuit is whatever the DM thinks would be appropriate to that creature. If you, as a DM, include encounters that are beyond a party's power, it's your responsibility to include opportunities for them to retreat - there's no game mechanic that will do it for you.
Phrennzy 08-22-07, 10:58 AM	The question to consider is: Why would there be pursuit? A crocodile is only going to chase its prey for a short distance before giving up. It will want to return to the safety of the water and/or the personal space of it's hunting ground. If someone broke into your home, and you were able to scare them out by coming at them with a baseball bat, how far would you chase them? Out the door? Down the block? Until you collapsed from the run? Would the dragon pursue the dwarf? Is it worth his time? Is it possible the dwarf is leading him into a trap? Are other thieves going to ransack his treasure while he is chasing the dwarf? Base pursuit on the reason for the pursuit.
Prom 08-23-07, 05:02 PM	Hi MarkB and Phrennzy, Thanks for your input, everything you have said makes sense to me. Posted by MarkB, If you, as a DM, include encounters that are beyond a party's power, it's your responsibility to include opportunities for them to retreat - there's no game mechanic that will do it for you. I good point, I know this sounds like simple stuff. So thanks again for your time.
heffroncm 08-23-07, 08:15 PM	As for the dragon, they are traditionally held to be easily enraged and quick to seek vengeance. It's quite likely, if the Dwarf actually did some damage, that the Dragon would chase him for an hour or more. As long as it seemed the Dragon had a chance of catching the Dwarf, that is. At least, most Chromatic dragons would probably act this way. Maybe not a Black. It's all down to the individual monster.
Alyss 08-24-07, 06:13 AM	Some monsters might pursue a PC for years, but not neccerrily by just running after him. Teleporting demons and so on...
CzarGarrett 08-24-07, 09:03 AM	If the dwarf knew there was a Dragon in the area, he might have dug some sort of tunnel escape, so that he could get underground and away from the dragon.
eamon 08-24-07, 10:48 AM	Given that a Dragon, when flying and "running" can reach a speed of 600ft per round, that dwarf won't have an hour to get away. Techniques like invisibility, hiding in a hole too small for the dragon (yet deep enough to escape its breath), teleportation, bluffing and running away before the dragon has a reason to chase you far are all potential means to get away. It's not going to be easy though, so unless the PC's are prepared to run away, and have given that some thought in advance, it's unlikely to be successful. They could always split up to minimize casualties...
primemover003 08-24-07, 04:26 PM	Invisibility and dragons isn't a good tactic... they have blindsight.
Prom 08-24-07, 05:53 PM	Hi All, I had thought that potions of fly might help a party against non-flying creatures, but this still assumes that the enemy does not follow the PC far. I can see dragons being very difficult to escape from for a PC. CzarGarrett isn't a Dragon likely to still hear or see a party hiding in a hole and just wait them out. Provided the Dragon really wants them. Digging an escape hole before-hand seems like a noisy process to perform close to a Dragon den. eamon, you are right a dragon fly's so fast how could anyone run away. Splitting the party up does sound like a good plan, but my just extend the time it takes for PC's to get eatten. primemover003, I tend to agree. Besides even if the dragon can't see the PC it may still hear them or even smell them (more likely). Well thankfully dragons don't show up that often and it is one of the worst situations. Prom
eamon 08-24-07, 09:48 PM	Invisibility and dragons isn't a good tactic... they have blindsight. It's true, and it's a problem - but blindsight only extends to 60ft, whereas a dragon has a 150ft fly speed (and that's without diving, charging or running) - which means that in many combats, the dragon will often be more than 60ft away quite frequently - and since a dragon can't turn around instantly in flight, you have a pretty good chance of hiding. Especially if you're the party wizard and the dragon still has that "nasty" Half-Orc barbarian to eat first, who's all the more visible since you so helpfully "Enlarged" him first ;-)... Anyways; invisibility is less useful but not useless against dragons.
Kaldric 08-28-07, 04:18 AM	It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a line on the tactics part of the encounter when you create it that dictates how long, if at all, the monster/npc will chase the party assuming the party runs, and why the monster/npc will chase them that long, if at all. "This beholder is incredibly vindictive and evil, but is also cowardly and paranoid. It will chase the party to the edge of its territory, and then immediately retreat back to its lair, fearing a trap if it leaves the area that it feels it controls." "The mother bear will attack anyone who moves within a 100 ft. radius of her cubs, and continue to attack them unless they are outside the 100 ft radius and currently moving away. If the characters stop moving away while still in her sight, she will attack again." "The worg-pack is starving to death, and will track and attack the party until they have fed, on their own dead or on party members." That kind of thing.