Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Ditto 03-30-07, 08:55 AM	I'm running from memory, so apologies if I totally mis-interpret this .. I was thinking .. I"m currently playing a Wizard/Psion/Cerebremancer ... I was trying to think of ways of (after level 16: ie: 3/3/10) increasing both wizard/psion levels after that. I got to thinking, Human paragon. Does it not have it's level 2 and 3 abilities as: "+1 to existing class" ?? If so, can you apply that to the Cerebremancer class? If so, does it then kick in another +1 to both wizard and psion? just curious ... Tanx!! :tiphat:
Epicweaver 03-30-07, 09:45 AM	I'm running from memory, so apologies if I totally mis-interpret this .. I was thinking .. I"m currently playing a Wizard/Psion/Cerebremancer ... I was trying to think of ways of (after level 16: ie: 3/3/10) increasing both wizard/psion levels after that. I got to thinking, Human paragon. Does it not have it's level 2 and 3 abilities as: "+1 to existing class" ?? If so, can you apply that to the Cerebremancer class? If so, does it then kick in another +1 to both wizard and psion? just curious ... Tanx!! :tiphat:I don't believe the 'fine print' of the Paragon descriptions would allow you to do this. The first Paragon to receive "+1 level of existing class" is the Half-Elf Paragon, and it's description is as follows. Spells per Day: At 2nd level, a half-elf paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of half-elf paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a half-elf paragon, she must decide to which class she adds the level of half-elf paragon. If a half-elf paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect. Here are a few reasons why (I think) you can't do it. #1 - Cerebremancer is not a 'spellcasting class' it has no spells per day list or spell list of it's own, it only advances a 'base spellcasting class'. Therefore Paragon wouldn't advance Cerebremancer, it would only advance Wizard. #2 - Cerebremancer level caps at 10. Once you hit that threshold, I don't think you can use "+1 level of existing class" type advancement to continue advancing non-existent features (as nice as that would be).
The_Ditto 03-30-07, 01:06 PM	#1 - Cerebremancer is not a 'spellcasting class' it has no spells per day list or spell list of it's own, it only advances a 'base spellcasting class'. Therefore Paragon wouldn't advance Cerebremancer, it would only advance Wizard. Yeah, it was that exact logic which prompted the question ... (hence why I thought of the "+1 level to existing spellcasting class" ... might help .. ) #2 - Cerebremancer level caps at 10. Once you hit that threshold, I don't think you can use "+1 level of existing class" type advancement to continue advancing non-existent features (as nice as that would be). Yeah, that bugs me too, however, aren't there "Epic" progressions for some 10-level PrC?
Marcus Majarra 03-30-07, 04:38 PM	In any case, you can defer to the ability's description, which matches that of pretty much every spellcasting advancing progression.
tos_shai_hulud 04-01-07, 05:44 PM	Yeah, it was that exact logic which prompted the question ... (hence why I thought of the "+1 level to existing spellcasting class" ... might help .. ) See the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon) for more information on Human Paragon. Much like Epicweaver posted, the +1 level to existing class does not improve class features of one class, but does grant spellcasting ability from one class. Epicweaver actually quoted directly from the class description. No prestige classes before the Expanded Psionics Handbook said "+1 level to existing spellcasting class" because all classes that could gain bonuses were spellcasting classes. It was only when there was a distinction to make between spellcasting class and manifesting class that this became important. One might rule that because it does not say spellcasting, you could also use a manifesting class, or a class that uses infusions, in place of a casting class, and follow similar rules. But, since Cerebremancer does not offer epic progression before epic levels, you are limited to the 10 levels of cerebremancer. The only way to continue gaining both wizard and psion levels would be to speak with your DM about another class. For instance, an elven wizard/druid can take 3 levels of wizard, 3 levels of druid, 10 levels of arcane hierophant (from Races of the Wild), then 4 levels of Mystic Theurge before going epic. Additionally, True Necromancer from Libris Mortis allows both arcane and divine spellcasting at most levels (it misses two levels of each). Then there is the Fochlucan Lyrist from the Complete Adventurer. A crafty player could potentially meet the prerequisites of that class without the bard/druid/rogue combination required. It would be tricky since it requires bardic music and evasion. Pretty much, you need a custom prestige class.
The_Ditto 04-02-07, 09:10 AM	See the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon) for more information on Human Paragon. . Sweet!! I didn't realize it was in the SRD ... :tiphat: Thanks!