Interpreting the ToB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Interpreting the ToB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cuindless
12-07-07, 07:03 PM I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting the rules in ToB for a character one of my players made. This is a one shot adventure with 3rd level characters. The player in question made a Human Fighter2/Warblade1. With his 3 first level feats he took Martial Study (from ToB) 3 times. With his Fighter2 feat he took Martial Stance. With his one level of Warblade he took White Raven Defense. So now he says his character knows 6 martial maneuvers, which can all be readied at once, three of which can be recovered as per the Warblade class and 2 stances as well. This seems a little broken to me, but it's scans with the way I read the rules. Any other opinions?

Relevent Text:

Martial Study - "When you gain this feat, you must choose a discipline of martial maneuvers, such as Desert Wind... Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite...If you later gain levels in a martial adept class (crusader, swordsage or warblade), you use the recovery method for maneuvers learned as a result of those class levels, but your previous maneuvers (gained through the feat or through prestige class levels) do not gain a recovery method."

Martial Stance - "When you gain this feat, you can select any stance from a discipline in which you already know at least one maneuver"
Salla
12-07-07, 09:29 PM Martial Study - "When you gain this feat, you must choose a discipline of martial maneuvers, such as Desert Wind... Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite...If you later gain levels in a martial adept class (crusader, swordsage or warblade), you use the recovery method for maneuvers learned as a result of those class levels, but your previous maneuvers (gained through the feat or through prestige class levels) do not gain a recovery method."

Martial Stance - "When you gain this feat, you can select any stance from a discipline in which you already know at least one maneuver"

His Feat-learned maneuvers are readied, but do not have a recovery method. When he recovers, he renews his Warblade maneuvers, but not his 'fighter maneuvers'.

Had he gone Warblade 1, then Fighter 2, however, those maneuvers would have been added to the Warblade list ... but, then he'd still be limited by the Warblades number of maneuvers readied, so it's a tradeoff.
pmurray@bigpond.com
12-09-07, 08:40 PM 2 stances is way cool, but he burned a feat to get them (3 feats, really). The tradeoff is that the fighter levels only count as 1/2 an initiator level, so a ftr2/wbl1 still only qualifies for first-level maneuvers.

Now - does Adaptive Style recover the maneuvers earned via feats?
Voran
12-16-07, 06:13 PM Lets see, as level 1 Warblade, he gets 3 Known, 3 readied, 1 stance.

The tricky thing is, picking maneuvers via feats is a rough way to go, you might get <x> move early, but you make it separate in recovery from your normal feats. So a stance or move or counter you can use once per encounter. Although technically with stance it doesn't say its got an encounter limitation.

So for this example:

He has 6 known feats, 6 readied feats, and 2 stances. In this case, the player is correct. But as soon as he burns those 3 martial study feats in combat, he drops to regular 3 known, 3 readied. As those 3 feat moves won't recover until the end of the encounter.

Also note that these 3 feat moves will always be external to his warblade progression, but not interchangeable. Say at 8th level warblade with 7 known and 4 readied, he can't say "ive got 10 known and 7 readied" and effectively try to swap out all his feat moves and have all 7 of his warblade moves readied. He'll have 7 warblade moves, able to ready 4 of them, plus 3 feat moves he knows/readied.

I don't see how Adaptive Style would help in the recovery of feat moves. Adaptive style to me only seems worthwhile once your readied moves are less than your known moves. But generally speaking at least at lower levels even when known moves outnumber readied moves, you've got a few 'entry moves' that you took largely to open up the tier and don't really need to use in your 'rotation'. Down the line though, it makes perfect sense, you can have a default rotation, and swap it out on the fly for a 'charge' rotation or a 'defensive bulwark' rotation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuindless 12-07-07, 07:03 PM	I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting the rules in ToB for a character one of my players made. This is a one shot adventure with 3rd level characters. The player in question made a Human Fighter2/Warblade1. With his 3 first level feats he took Martial Study (from ToB) 3 times. With his Fighter2 feat he took Martial Stance. With his one level of Warblade he took White Raven Defense. So now he says his character knows 6 martial maneuvers, which can all be readied at once, three of which can be recovered as per the Warblade class and 2 stances as well. This seems a little broken to me, but it's scans with the way I read the rules. Any other opinions? Relevent Text: Martial Study - "When you gain this feat, you must choose a discipline of martial maneuvers, such as Desert Wind... Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite...If you later gain levels in a martial adept class (crusader, swordsage or warblade), you use the recovery method for maneuvers learned as a result of those class levels, but your previous maneuvers (gained through the feat or through prestige class levels) do not gain a recovery method." Martial Stance - "When you gain this feat, you can select any stance from a discipline in which you already know at least one maneuver"
Salla 12-07-07, 09:29 PM	Martial Study - "When you gain this feat, you must choose a discipline of martial maneuvers, such as Desert Wind... Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite...If you later gain levels in a martial adept class (crusader, swordsage or warblade), you use the recovery method for maneuvers learned as a result of those class levels, but your previous maneuvers (gained through the feat or through prestige class levels) do not gain a recovery method." Martial Stance - "When you gain this feat, you can select any stance from a discipline in which you already know at least one maneuver" His Feat-learned maneuvers are readied, but do not have a recovery method. When he recovers, he renews his Warblade maneuvers, but not his 'fighter maneuvers'. Had he gone Warblade 1, then Fighter 2, however, those maneuvers would have been added to the Warblade list ... but, then he'd still be limited by the Warblades number of maneuvers readied, so it's a tradeoff.
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-09-07, 08:40 PM	2 stances is way cool, but he burned a feat to get them (3 feats, really). The tradeoff is that the fighter levels only count as 1/2 an initiator level, so a ftr2/wbl1 still only qualifies for first-level maneuvers. Now - does Adaptive Style recover the maneuvers earned via feats?
Voran 12-16-07, 06:13 PM	Lets see, as level 1 Warblade, he gets 3 Known, 3 readied, 1 stance. The tricky thing is, picking maneuvers via feats is a rough way to go, you might get <x> move early, but you make it separate in recovery from your normal feats. So a stance or move or counter you can use once per encounter. Although technically with stance it doesn't say its got an encounter limitation. So for this example: He has 6 known feats, 6 readied feats, and 2 stances. In this case, the player is correct. But as soon as he burns those 3 martial study feats in combat, he drops to regular 3 known, 3 readied. As those 3 feat moves won't recover until the end of the encounter. Also note that these 3 feat moves will always be external to his warblade progression, but not interchangeable. Say at 8th level warblade with 7 known and 4 readied, he can't say "ive got 10 known and 7 readied" and effectively try to swap out all his feat moves and have all 7 of his warblade moves readied. He'll have 7 warblade moves, able to ready 4 of them, plus 3 feat moves he knows/readied. I don't see how Adaptive Style would help in the recovery of feat moves. Adaptive style to me only seems worthwhile once your readied moves are less than your known moves. But generally speaking at least at lower levels even when known moves outnumber readied moves, you've got a few 'entry moves' that you took largely to open up the tier and don't really need to use in your 'rotation'. Down the line though, it makes perfect sense, you can have a default rotation, and swap it out on the fly for a 'charge' rotation or a 'defensive bulwark' rotation.