Interupted spring attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Interupted spring attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pheron
03-28-07, 08:50 PM Example: PC is using spring attack feat. The PC plans to move 30', attack, move back 30'. It's a very standard tactic for this PC in my game. Say I have an enemy ready a trip action, trigged to go off when the PC closes to attack range.
So the PC moves in, the NPC attacks with his readied trip and if he wins the PC goes down. The question I have is can the PC then use a move action to get up, or did he commit himself to a full-round action and has no futher actions until his next round?
Nom
03-28-07, 08:57 PM Well, he's used (part of) his move action. Until he makes the attack, he hasn't used his standard action.
orionm42
03-29-07, 09:56 AM I agree with Nom. In the given example, he still has his standard action left and, since you can always substitute a move action for a standard action, he can use the available action to stand up.

As an aside, I am assuming the character in question is a monk (or savage race?, hasted?), as spring attack does not allow you to move more than your speed in a round....you refer to total movement of 60 feet.
Fitz10019
03-29-07, 06:44 PM You could ready the action to trip for when the spring attacker moves away. That way, he moves in, he attacks, he tries to move away, and you trip him. At this point, he has no actions to use to stand during this round.
Nom
03-29-07, 07:34 PM One could rule that once the PC uses Spring Attack to avoid an AoO that he has committed to the standard action. But this situation doesn't seem like that either.
pheron
03-29-07, 08:24 PM The AoO is I think the real kicker in the process. If the Bad Guy has a reach weapon, the AoO is foiled by the Spring Attack. But if the character can convert his full-round action (Spring Attack) to a move action then the Bad guy was denied an AoO.
Yesh I now the movemt totaled to 60 feet. Of the two characters who like to be springy one is a monk with 60 ft of movement. I'm not trying to nerf their spring attack, but I do want to have useful tatcis by intelligent bad guys who oppose them.
I gues the real issue is once you start a full round action, if it is interuppted are you allowed to convert it to something less than a full round action?
Nom
03-29-07, 10:12 PM The real issue is that Spring Attack isn't a full round action. You take a move action first and at some point stick your (as yet unused) standard action in the middle. The only point where you need to muck with Spring Attack is if you avoid an AoO; at that point (and only at that point) you have committed to spending your standard action on an attack on that particular target.

In order to spoil the standard action attack, the creature would need reach of 15 ft. or more and deliberately not use its ready action until the attacker came within 10 ft.. The Spring Attack benefit first comes into play when the attacker moves from (say) 15 ft. to 10 ft.. If the defender had only 10 ft. reach and tripped when the attacker reached 5 ft. the attacker could still attack from prone.

In general, you are not required to declare all your actions until you actually gain some benefit from them. Withdraw or Run commit you for an entire turn. Full attack sorta commits you, but it's explicitly legal to abort a full attack after a single attack and perform a move action instead. Double-moving doesn't commit your second move action until you decide to add the second move to the first. Similarly, a move only becomes a Spring Attack when you negate an AoO or make an attack; until that point, it's just a move.

Another example: when casting a touch spell, cast-move-touch is legal. You don't need to declare this until you decide to wait on the touch and move first. Like Spring Attack, it's usually fairly obvious what is going to happen, but the player isn't required to actually commit to the second action until they in some way use it.
pheron
03-29-07, 11:57 PM The real issue is that Spring Attack isn't a full round action. You take a move action first and at some point stick your (as yet unused) standard action in the middle. The only point where you need to muck with Spring Attack is if you avoid an AoO; at that point (and only at that point) you have committed to spending your standard action on an attack on that particular target.
.

You are most right. I was thinking of spring attack as a full-round action and it is not. I feel like a dunder-head. Once the character has used Spring to negate the AoO he's commited. Thank you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pheron 03-28-07, 08:50 PM	Example: PC is using spring attack feat. The PC plans to move 30', attack, move back 30'. It's a very standard tactic for this PC in my game. Say I have an enemy ready a trip action, trigged to go off when the PC closes to attack range. So the PC moves in, the NPC attacks with his readied trip and if he wins the PC goes down. The question I have is can the PC then use a move action to get up, or did he commit himself to a full-round action and has no futher actions until his next round?
Nom 03-28-07, 08:57 PM	Well, he's used (part of) his move action. Until he makes the attack, he hasn't used his standard action.
orionm42 03-29-07, 09:56 AM	I agree with Nom. In the given example, he still has his standard action left and, since you can always substitute a move action for a standard action, he can use the available action to stand up. As an aside, I am assuming the character in question is a monk (or savage race?, hasted?), as spring attack does not allow you to move more than your speed in a round....you refer to total movement of 60 feet.
Fitz10019 03-29-07, 06:44 PM	You could ready the action to trip for when the spring attacker moves away. That way, he moves in, he attacks, he tries to move away, and you trip him. At this point, he has no actions to use to stand during this round.
Nom 03-29-07, 07:34 PM	One could rule that once the PC uses Spring Attack to avoid an AoO that he has committed to the standard action. But this situation doesn't seem like that either.
pheron 03-29-07, 08:24 PM	The AoO is I think the real kicker in the process. If the Bad Guy has a reach weapon, the AoO is foiled by the Spring Attack. But if the character can convert his full-round action (Spring Attack) to a move action then the Bad guy was denied an AoO. Yesh I now the movemt totaled to 60 feet. Of the two characters who like to be springy one is a monk with 60 ft of movement. I'm not trying to nerf their spring attack, but I do want to have useful tatcis by intelligent bad guys who oppose them. I gues the real issue is once you start a full round action, if it is interuppted are you allowed to convert it to something less than a full round action?
Nom 03-29-07, 10:12 PM	The real issue is that Spring Attack isn't a full round action. You take a move action first and at some point stick your (as yet unused) standard action in the middle. The only point where you need to muck with Spring Attack is if you avoid an AoO; at that point (and only at that point) you have committed to spending your standard action on an attack on that particular target. In order to spoil the standard action attack, the creature would need reach of 15 ft. or more and deliberately not use its ready action until the attacker came within 10 ft.. The Spring Attack benefit first comes into play when the attacker moves from (say) 15 ft. to 10 ft.. If the defender had only 10 ft. reach and tripped when the attacker reached 5 ft. the attacker could still attack from prone. In general, you are not required to declare all your actions until you actually gain some benefit from them. Withdraw or Run commit you for an entire turn. Full attack sorta commits you, but it's explicitly legal to abort a full attack after a single attack and perform a move action instead. Double-moving doesn't commit your second move action until you decide to add the second move to the first. Similarly, a move only becomes a Spring Attack when you negate an AoO or make an attack; until that point, it's just a move. Another example: when casting a touch spell, cast-move-touch is legal. You don't need to declare this until you decide to wait on the touch and move first. Like Spring Attack, it's usually fairly obvious what is going to happen, but the player isn't required to actually commit to the second action until they in some way use it.
pheron 03-29-07, 11:57 PM	The real issue is that Spring Attack isn't a full round action. You take a move action first and at some point stick your (as yet unused) standard action in the middle. The only point where you need to muck with Spring Attack is if you avoid an AoO; at that point (and only at that point) you have committed to spending your standard action on an attack on that particular target. . You are most right. I was thinking of spring attack as a full-round action and it is not. I feel like a dunder-head. Once the character has used Spring to negate the AoO he's commited. Thank you!