Ioun stone stealing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ioun stone stealing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Suin Bahhar
04-22-07, 01:21 PM Snatching an ioun stone from its orbit around the head of a person is impossible right?
Or is it realy easy? Grabbing an item rules dont acount for moving stones around a head...
Evil DM Mk3
04-22-07, 01:32 PM Really easy. Touch attack Vs their AC.
Suin Bahhar
04-22-07, 01:41 PM The AC of an ioun stone is like a diminutive object right? So AC 18+dex modifier of the wielder.
Evil DM Mk3
04-22-07, 02:26 PM Yes
tos_shai_hulud
04-22-07, 03:08 PM According to the DMG, they have an AC of 24. This seems to include their own Dexterity, as they are not held by their owner, and therefore the owner's dexterity would not aid them. They have a 24 regular, touch, and flat-footed AC.
runestar
04-22-07, 10:51 PM Attacking and grabbing ioun stones (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/combatwithiounstones.html):)
tos_shai_hulud
04-23-07, 01:49 AM I disagree with that interpretation. It is clearly not carried, worn, or held. That is the purpose of Ioun stones. They have a touch AC of 24. If you hit the touch attack, you can grab them. Seems pretty simple to me.
runestar
04-23-07, 02:53 AM Problem is that it then makes ioun stones pretty much useless.
Why invest in ioun stones which represent an extra degree of unnecessary risk, when I could just double the cost of the base magic item to make it slotless, and stow it away safely in my backpack? I would still get full benefits, but none of the drawbacks.:confused:
tos_shai_hulud
04-23-07, 03:42 AM Problem is that it then makes ioun stones pretty much useless.
Why invest in ioun stones which represent an extra degree of unnecessary risk, when I could just double the cost of the base magic item to make it slotless, and stow it away safely in my backpack? I would still get full benefits, but none of the drawbacks.:confused:

Lol, if you have a DM that thinks that having an item in your backpack, giving the same benefits as an Ioun stone, is worth the same price just because the pricing guidelines suggest that as a starting price before the DM adjusts it, then by all means convert all of your items to slotless backpack items. According to the pricing guidelines, you need to compare any item to an already existing item to determine its cost. If you compare an item that sits in your backpack with little to no vulnerabilities to an item that floats three feat away from you around your head, it seems clear that these are not comparable. The one that is vulnerable would easily cost less.
Evil DM Mk3
04-23-07, 09:37 AM If someone is wasting their time grabbing the stones from you arent attacking are they?
Pegasos989
04-23-07, 09:47 AM If someone is wasting their time grabbing the stones from you arent attacking are they?

Sure but AC 24... At higher levels that can be beat with the later iterative attacks that wouldn't propably hit anyways, so it is not even the "atleast they won't attack me" benefit...

But yes, ioun stones are a high risk in melee combat. However, if you are a high level wizard, you should be overland flying with greater invisibility or something similar, not be in melee combat.
DivineDragoonXD
04-24-07, 09:20 AM Sure but AC 24... At higher levels that can be beat with the later iterative attacks that wouldn't propably hit anyways, so it is not even the "atleast they won't attack me" benefit...

But yes, ioun stones are a high risk in melee combat. However, if you are a high level wizard, you should be overland flying with greater invisibility or something similar, not be in melee combat.

Well uh I dont know if this is just me but I dont believe Greater Invisibility would work on Ioun Stones because they are not held; they are floating three feet from your head. Can we say pin the arrow in the middle of the Ioun Stones. :)
Pegasos989
04-24-07, 10:46 AM Hmm, good point... Yeah.

Now that I checked it... By RAW, I don't think that invisibility affects Ioun stones if cast on self but I would certainly rule it does.
Evil DM Mk3
04-24-07, 02:09 PM Nononononono! Cast regular invisability on them and make it perminent (as they are objects).
tos_shai_hulud
04-24-07, 02:36 PM My thoughts exactly. Then with Permanency Arcane Sight, you can still see them without any problem.
Evil DM Mk3
04-24-07, 02:37 PM And what wizard worth his slat doesn't have that. Damn it it is worth the xp just for the "my eyes glow" schtick!
mvincent
04-26-07, 01:50 PM Snatching an ioun stone from its orbit around the head of a person is impossible right?
Or is it realy easy? Grabbing an item rules dont acount for moving stones around a head...The disarming rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#disarm) say:
"Grabbing Items
You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack.

If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above.

You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt. "

I would say that Ioun stones count as poorly secured items.
DaidojiTaidoru
04-26-07, 02:00 PM I disagree with that interpretation. It is clearly not carried, worn, or held. That is the purpose of Ioun stones. They have a touch AC of 24. If you hit the touch attack, you can grab them. Seems pretty simple to me.

It's worn, sorta. It spins in a fixed orbit around the persons body. If the owner dodges left, the stone moves an equivalent amount. Just like their belt pouch. The only difference is it's a little further away and not actually attached to anything, making guarding it specifically slightly more difficult. I'd say the disarm bonus is more reasonable.
mvincent
04-26-07, 02:10 PM It's worn, sorta.Yup. According to D&D mechanics it would be treated as being worn (so would an animated shield, for that matter).
crashlogic
05-08-07, 02:22 PM Yup. According to D&D mechanics it would be treated as being worn (so would an animated shield, for that matter).

So then the Ioun Stone itself has a 24 AC, but any attempt to disarm it is at +4 against the 24 AC?
tos_shai_hulud
05-08-07, 02:26 PM So then the Ioun Stone itself has a 24 AC, but any attempt to disarm it is at +4 against the 24 AC?

Disarm does not use AC. It uses an opposed attack roll.
crashlogic
05-08-07, 02:31 PM Disarm does not use AC. It uses an opposed attack roll.

So attacking an Ioun stone is at 24 ac, but snatching it gets the +4 to the disarm?
tos_shai_hulud
05-08-07, 02:35 PM So attacking an Ioun stone is at 24 ac, but snatching it gets the +4 to the disarm?

It might be worse than that. An Ioun stone is Diminutive, giving it a -12 on the disarm roll. Since it is not a weapon, it gains an additional -4 on the disarm roll. With a total -16 to the disarm check, it is a wonder anyone can hold onto their Ioun stones at all! (I disagree with the ruling that Ioun stones are held, but by RAW, they are. I would contend that to grab one, it would be a grab attack, requiring a touch attack against its AC 24 followed by an automatic success if touched. It would provoke an attack of opportunity, and if the attack of opportunity hit, the grabber would fail in his grab.)
mvincent
05-08-07, 03:00 PM It might be worse than that. An Ioun stone is Diminutive, giving it a -12 on the disarm roll. Since it is not a weapon, it gains an additional -4 on the disarm roll. I believe you might have misinterpreted the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grabbingItems). They say:
"Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. (An unarmed strike is considered a light weapon, so you always take a penalty when trying to disarm an opponent by using an unarmed strike.) If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty on the roll."

The stone's size would not make a difference here.
tos_shai_hulud
05-08-07, 03:06 PM Yes, I did. I still prefer my ruling to the RAW ruling :-P
Empiro
05-09-07, 10:42 PM If you're concerned about theft, get 20 dull gray ones on the cheap, paint or use silly putty to make all of them look the same, and have them all spin around your head. Let your enemies try to pick one out randomly to steal :-P
TheKeyofE
05-10-07, 10:00 PM If you're concerned about theft, get 20 dull gray ones on the cheap, paint or use silly putty to make all of them look the same, and have them all spin around your head. Let your enemies try to pick one out randomly to steal :-P

Yeah, until you have so many stones circling your head that you can't see anymore. :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suin Bahhar 04-22-07, 01:21 PM	Snatching an ioun stone from its orbit around the head of a person is impossible right? Or is it realy easy? Grabbing an item rules dont acount for moving stones around a head...
Evil DM Mk3 04-22-07, 01:32 PM	Really easy. Touch attack Vs their AC.
Suin Bahhar 04-22-07, 01:41 PM	The AC of an ioun stone is like a diminutive object right? So AC 18+dex modifier of the wielder.
Evil DM Mk3 04-22-07, 02:26 PM	Yes
tos_shai_hulud 04-22-07, 03:08 PM	According to the DMG, they have an AC of 24. This seems to include their own Dexterity, as they are not held by their owner, and therefore the owner's dexterity would not aid them. They have a 24 regular, touch, and flat-footed AC.
runestar 04-22-07, 10:51 PM	Attacking and grabbing ioun stones (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/combatwithiounstones.html):)
tos_shai_hulud 04-23-07, 01:49 AM	I disagree with that interpretation. It is clearly not carried, worn, or held. That is the purpose of Ioun stones. They have a touch AC of 24. If you hit the touch attack, you can grab them. Seems pretty simple to me.
runestar 04-23-07, 02:53 AM	Problem is that it then makes ioun stones pretty much useless. Why invest in ioun stones which represent an extra degree of unnecessary risk, when I could just double the cost of the base magic item to make it slotless, and stow it away safely in my backpack? I would still get full benefits, but none of the drawbacks.:confused:
tos_shai_hulud 04-23-07, 03:42 AM	Problem is that it then makes ioun stones pretty much useless. Why invest in ioun stones which represent an extra degree of unnecessary risk, when I could just double the cost of the base magic item to make it slotless, and stow it away safely in my backpack? I would still get full benefits, but none of the drawbacks.:confused: Lol, if you have a DM that thinks that having an item in your backpack, giving the same benefits as an Ioun stone, is worth the same price just because the pricing guidelines suggest that as a starting price before the DM adjusts it, then by all means convert all of your items to slotless backpack items. According to the pricing guidelines, you need to compare any item to an already existing item to determine its cost. If you compare an item that sits in your backpack with little to no vulnerabilities to an item that floats three feat away from you around your head, it seems clear that these are not comparable. The one that is vulnerable would easily cost less.
Evil DM Mk3 04-23-07, 09:37 AM	If someone is wasting their time grabbing the stones from you arent attacking are they?
Pegasos989 04-23-07, 09:47 AM	If someone is wasting their time grabbing the stones from you arent attacking are they? Sure but AC 24... At higher levels that can be beat with the later iterative attacks that wouldn't propably hit anyways, so it is not even the "atleast they won't attack me" benefit... But yes, ioun stones are a high risk in melee combat. However, if you are a high level wizard, you should be overland flying with greater invisibility or something similar, not be in melee combat.
DivineDragoonXD 04-24-07, 09:20 AM	Sure but AC 24... At higher levels that can be beat with the later iterative attacks that wouldn't propably hit anyways, so it is not even the "atleast they won't attack me" benefit... But yes, ioun stones are a high risk in melee combat. However, if you are a high level wizard, you should be overland flying with greater invisibility or something similar, not be in melee combat. Well uh I dont know if this is just me but I dont believe Greater Invisibility would work on Ioun Stones because they are not held; they are floating three feet from your head. Can we say pin the arrow in the middle of the Ioun Stones. :)
Pegasos989 04-24-07, 10:46 AM	Hmm, good point... Yeah. Now that I checked it... By RAW, I don't think that invisibility affects Ioun stones if cast on self but I would certainly rule it does.
Evil DM Mk3 04-24-07, 02:09 PM	Nononononono! Cast regular invisability on them and make it perminent (as they are objects).
tos_shai_hulud 04-24-07, 02:36 PM	My thoughts exactly. Then with Permanency Arcane Sight, you can still see them without any problem.
Evil DM Mk3 04-24-07, 02:37 PM	And what wizard worth his slat doesn't have that. Damn it it is worth the xp just for the "my eyes glow" schtick!
mvincent 04-26-07, 01:50 PM	Snatching an ioun stone from its orbit around the head of a person is impossible right? Or is it realy easy? Grabbing an item rules dont acount for moving stones around a head...The disarming rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#disarm) say: "Grabbing Items You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack. If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above. You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt. " I would say that Ioun stones count as poorly secured items.
DaidojiTaidoru 04-26-07, 02:00 PM	I disagree with that interpretation. It is clearly not carried, worn, or held. That is the purpose of Ioun stones. They have a touch AC of 24. If you hit the touch attack, you can grab them. Seems pretty simple to me. It's worn, sorta. It spins in a fixed orbit around the persons body. If the owner dodges left, the stone moves an equivalent amount. Just like their belt pouch. The only difference is it's a little further away and not actually attached to anything, making guarding it specifically slightly more difficult. I'd say the disarm bonus is more reasonable.
mvincent 04-26-07, 02:10 PM	It's worn, sorta.Yup. According to D&D mechanics it would be treated as being worn (so would an animated shield, for that matter).
crashlogic 05-08-07, 02:22 PM	Yup. According to D&D mechanics it would be treated as being worn (so would an animated shield, for that matter). So then the Ioun Stone itself has a 24 AC, but any attempt to disarm it is at +4 against the 24 AC?
tos_shai_hulud 05-08-07, 02:26 PM	So then the Ioun Stone itself has a 24 AC, but any attempt to disarm it is at +4 against the 24 AC? Disarm does not use AC. It uses an opposed attack roll.
crashlogic 05-08-07, 02:31 PM	Disarm does not use AC. It uses an opposed attack roll. So attacking an Ioun stone is at 24 ac, but snatching it gets the +4 to the disarm?
tos_shai_hulud 05-08-07, 02:35 PM	So attacking an Ioun stone is at 24 ac, but snatching it gets the +4 to the disarm? It might be worse than that. An Ioun stone is Diminutive, giving it a -12 on the disarm roll. Since it is not a weapon, it gains an additional -4 on the disarm roll. With a total -16 to the disarm check, it is a wonder anyone can hold onto their Ioun stones at all! (I disagree with the ruling that Ioun stones are held, but by RAW, they are. I would contend that to grab one, it would be a grab attack, requiring a touch attack against its AC 24 followed by an automatic success if touched. It would provoke an attack of opportunity, and if the attack of opportunity hit, the grabber would fail in his grab.)
mvincent 05-08-07, 03:00 PM	It might be worse than that. An Ioun stone is Diminutive, giving it a -12 on the disarm roll. Since it is not a weapon, it gains an additional -4 on the disarm roll. I believe you might have misinterpreted the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grabbingItems). They say: "Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. (An unarmed strike is considered a light weapon, so you always take a penalty when trying to disarm an opponent by using an unarmed strike.) If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty on the roll." The stone's size would not make a difference here.
tos_shai_hulud 05-08-07, 03:06 PM	Yes, I did. I still prefer my ruling to the RAW ruling :-P
Empiro 05-09-07, 10:42 PM	If you're concerned about theft, get 20 dull gray ones on the cheap, paint or use silly putty to make all of them look the same, and have them all spin around your head. Let your enemies try to pick one out randomly to steal :-P
TheKeyofE 05-10-07, 10:00 PM	If you're concerned about theft, get 20 dull gray ones on the cheap, paint or use silly putty to make all of them look the same, and have them all spin around your head. Let your enemies try to pick one out randomly to steal :-P Yeah, until you have so many stones circling your head that you can't see anymore. :rolleyes: