Lassos in d&d [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lassos in d&d [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pukunui
01-18-08, 08:39 PM Last night saw the PCs get attacked by a pair of chimeras while riding on giant owls. One of my players decided he was going to make a lasso with his rope and try to grab the nearest chimera with it.

I had absolutely no idea how to play that one out. Grapple seemed to make the most sense, but instead of a melee attack, I told him he'd have to make a ranged attack instead since he was throwing the rope at the chimera. I also imposed the -4 penalty on the attack roll for an improvised weapon. Fortunately for me, he failed on his attack roll ...

But does anyone have any idea how to adjudicate this situation should it ever come up again? I think it was a clever idea - certainly an unusual one - and I felt bad about not really know how to adjudicate it. I sort of felt like I was punishing my player for thinking outside the box when really I should be encouraging him and his comrades to do it more often.

Your thoughts please.

Cheers,

Jonathan
Rood_Inverse
01-18-08, 08:44 PM I'd say ranged touch attack, not a grapple.

Employ drowning/choking rules, if the lasso lands around a neck. If it lands around the feet, like a bola, make an attack like you would if you were making a trip attack - assuming the foe was land-based at the time.

IMO.
pukunui
01-18-08, 08:53 PM I thought about ranged touch but grappled seemed better because the creature ought to have the chance to escape the noose.

In this instance, both the PC and the enemy were flying. I believe the player was trying to lasso the lion's head on the chimera.

The other thing to consider is that the PC in question was a halfling. So I imagine that even if he had succeeded in lassoing the chimera, it probably would have had little trouble yanking the halfling off his giant owl. How would I have adjudicated that? Opposed Strength checks? And if the halfling loses, he has the opportunity to let go of the rope or be pulled off? And if he gets pulled off, would he have to make a Dex check to maintain a hold on the rope or something?
KyoMamoru
01-18-08, 09:06 PM 1) Throw Weapon. [Range 30 feet]
2) Ranged Touch Attack.
3) Bind Check.
4) Grapple Check.

Touch Attacks
Some attacks disregard armor, including shields and natural armor. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

Obviously, having armor isn't going to prevent you from being lassoed. Makes sense to have it as a touch attack.

Bind a Character
When you bind another character with a rope, any Escape Artist check that the bound character makes is opposed by your Use Rope check.
You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape.

This is pretty much the only thing that I could find the the SRD about it. This pertains to what I'd assume to be a situation where the players are in the same square, however. The grapple check is to make everything final in regards to who has control. If he fails, then even if the roping was done perfectly, the monster is able to escape his grasp. Once all the checks are done though, you have a VERY favorable situation in combat. Risk vs Reward.
Rood_Inverse
01-18-08, 09:07 PM EDIT: Never mind this comment... I like Kyo's answer.

I thought about ranged touch but grappled seemed better because the creature ought to have the chance to escape the noose.

Opposed STR checks. There are three options: the rope gets pulled out of the PCs hands, the PC holds onto the rope and is pulled from the saddle, the PC chokes the target with the lasso.

But you're not trying to wrestle him. You're just trying to get the lasso to *touch* him, swing around his neck. Then you have the opposed checks. I think it's more about the order it happens in that determines the check.

Or you could wholesale subsitute trip attack mechanics, and call them lasso attack mechanics, for flavor.
pukunui
01-18-08, 09:18 PM OK. Thanks. Shoulda gone with my gut then ... my first thought was ranged touch. Just didn't know where to take it after that, so I looked at grapple, which said melee attack first. Since that didn't seem appropriate, I thought regular ranged attack instead even though at the back of my mind I knew that probably wasn't right.

Oh well. Thanks guys. Will file it away for future reference.
Ivellius
01-18-08, 09:18 PM Pehaps in addition to what was said above, if the lassoer wins you could try treating it like an entanglement (see the net for details). Maybe downgrade the penalties a little if you think they're too much to represent merely having a rope around you, but I think it could work. If the lassoer fails the strength check to keep the target in place, then he/she can be pulled (maybe a reverse bullrush-type maneuver?).
pukunui
01-18-08, 09:45 PM Pehaps in addition to what was said above, if the lassoer wins you could try treating it like an entanglement (see the net for details). Maybe downgrade the penalties a little if you think they're too much to represent merely having a rope around you, but I think it could work. If the lassoer fails the strength check to keep the target in place, then he/she can be pulled (maybe a reverse bullrush-type maneuver?).
OK. Thanks.
Kouk
01-19-08, 02:23 AM There are rules for a lasso in Races of Faerun I believe.
pukunui
01-19-08, 02:51 AM There are rules for a lasso in Races of Faerun I believe.
Really?! I'll have to check it out. Thanks.

EDIT: OK, Races of Faerun has rules that are fairly similar to what everyone's said here.

A lasso's range increment is 10ft and its max range can't exceed the length of the rope minus 5ft (for the loop, obviously).

You make a ranged touch attack with it. If successful, you then start a grapple with a -4 penalty (not really sure why). If the grappled is successful, you can then attempt to trip the opponent. You are not considered to be grappling while using a lasso. You can tie the rope to your mount's saddle and use the mount's modifiers for the check as well. As usual, if you are in turn tripped while attempting to trip your opponent, you can just let go of the rope to avoid being tripped (so much for being yanked out of the saddle ... :rolleyes:).

The only thing I'm not sure about is that it says you can only use a lasso on Medium or smaller creatures. Anyone have any idea why that is? Can you not make a noose big enough for a Large or larger creature? Or is it just that a "Medium" lasso can only affect Medium or smaller creatures and you'd need a "Large" lasso to affect a bigger person (and if you're only Medium, then you'd take the penalty for using a weapon too large for you, etc etc)?
Rood_Inverse
01-19-08, 10:01 AM A touch of realism?

It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you.

But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't.
pukunui
01-19-08, 03:09 PM A touch of realism?

It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you.

But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't.
I think it is a touch of realism ... but I think also that it has to do with creature/weapon size. A Medium person using a lasso sized for him is only going to be able to snare Medium or smaller people. In order to snare a larger creature, you'd either need a Large person wielding a Large lasso, or else the Medium person would have to make the noose bigger and thus take the "using a weapon too large for you" penalty.

I think that makes sense and is in keeping with the "touch of realism". A bigger creature ought to be able to keep a bigger noose in the air without it flopping around.

EDIT: Now, here's the hypothetical question. Assuming the mounted PC is able to snag his enemy with a lasso ... if he fails the subsequent trip attempt, he can just let go of the rope to avoid being pulled out of the saddle because it's still technically his turn. However, let's say he snags the enemy and succeeds in "tripping" the enemy with the lasso but the enemy then takes ahold of the rope and gives a good hard pull on it on its turn. I guess this would be considered another trip attempt? Would the PC still be able to drop the rope to avoid being tripped? Or can the enemy potentially succeed in pulling the PC out of the saddle?
Heros_Backpack
01-19-08, 06:42 PM A touch of realism?

It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you.

But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't.

Given that a whole lot of real life people regularly used lassoes to catch horses and cattle, I'd be more inclined to houserule that a lasso is similar to a net and can only be used on creatures within one size category of the wielder.
Rood_Inverse
01-19-08, 06:50 PM However, let's say he snags the enemy and succeeds in "tripping" the enemy with the lasso but the enemy then takes ahold of the rope and gives a good hard pull on it on its turn. I guess this would be considered another trip attempt? Would the PC still be able to drop the rope to avoid being tripped? Or can the enemy potentially succeed in pulling the PC out of the saddle?

Isn't there a section that details, "if the opposing role is 5+ better than your role, you cannot..." and "if the opposing roll is within 5 of your roll, nothing happens?"

I can't remember if it had to do with attacks or skill checks, and I can't find the page right now. ... But that's something I'd use, off the top of my head, to determine if he gets pulled with the rope. If he fails by more than 5 on his opposed STR check, he goes down.
pukunui
01-19-08, 06:57 PM Given that a whole lot of real life people regularly used lassoes to catch horses and cattle, I'd be more inclined to houserule that a lasso is similar to a net and can only be used on creatures within one size category of the wielder.That's sort of what I was assuming with the lasso in Races of Faerun. I figured they must have been treating it as a Medium-sized creature's lasso and, as they often do, are leaving it up to you to look in the DMG to see how it would be different for bigger and/or smaller creatures.

Isn't there a section that details, "if the opposing role is 5+ better than your role, you cannot..." and "if the opposing roll is within 5 of your roll, nothing happens?"

I can't remember if it had to do with attacks or skill checks, and I can't find the page right now. ... But that's something I'd use, off the top of my head, to determine if he gets pulled with the rope. If he fails by more than 5 on his opposed STR check, he goes down.Can't say I recall ever reading that one. It certainly doesn't say anything like that in the Trip mechanics. There are a few Skills where if you fail by less than 5, it's not as bad as if you fail by more (Climb is one, where if you fail by less than 5, you make no progress, but if you fail by more than 5, you fall).
Mock26
01-20-08, 03:08 AM I would impose a -2 penalty for using regular rope as a lasso. The rope used for lassos is normally very stiff. That's what allows it to hold its shape while it is twirled and when it is thrown. If you make a lasso out of regular rope, even a good climbing rope, and twirl it over your head it will elongate out and the loop will close.
pukunui
01-20-08, 04:16 AM I would impose a -2 penalty for using regular rope as a lasso. The rope used for lassos is normally very stiff. That's what allows it to hold its shape while it is twirled and when it is thrown. If you make a lasso out of regular rope, even a good climbing rope, and twirl it over your head it will elongate out and the loop will close.
That could be why the lasso in Races of Faerun costs 10gp.

I'm guessing that in this instance, silk rope would actually be worse than regular rope?
Kouk
01-20-08, 06:30 AM Turns out there is a different version of a "lasso" in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You may prefer that mechanic, it is more like a Net.
pukunui
01-20-08, 02:11 PM Turns out there is a different version of a "lasso" in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You may prefer that mechanic, it is more like a Net.
Hmm. Yes. The mechanics for the BoED lasso are much simpler. No size restrictions, for one thing. And it entangles the foe, although you can also choose to trip them. Distance is 30ft.

I also like the bit about how the lassoed creature can continue to run around but if you win an opposed STR check, you can limit their movement to the rope's length.

Thanks Kouk!

Cheers,
Jonathan
mvincent
01-21-08, 12:57 PM One of my players decided he was going to make a lasso with his rope and try to grab the nearest chimera with it.

I had absolutely no idea how to play that one out.Improvised weapon: net

(while other sourcebooks have rules for lassos, this is quicker, and requires only the PHB).
wrecan
01-22-08, 01:05 PM I like mvincent's approach.
monai75
01-22-08, 01:19 PM what about factoring in use rope skill? I would think this would have some bearing for players who have ranks in the skill...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pukunui 01-18-08, 08:39 PM	Last night saw the PCs get attacked by a pair of chimeras while riding on giant owls. One of my players decided he was going to make a lasso with his rope and try to grab the nearest chimera with it. I had absolutely no idea how to play that one out. Grapple seemed to make the most sense, but instead of a melee attack, I told him he'd have to make a ranged attack instead since he was throwing the rope at the chimera. I also imposed the -4 penalty on the attack roll for an improvised weapon. Fortunately for me, he failed on his attack roll ... But does anyone have any idea how to adjudicate this situation should it ever come up again? I think it was a clever idea - certainly an unusual one - and I felt bad about not really know how to adjudicate it. I sort of felt like I was punishing my player for thinking outside the box when really I should be encouraging him and his comrades to do it more often. Your thoughts please. Cheers, Jonathan
Rood_Inverse 01-18-08, 08:44 PM	I'd say ranged touch attack, not a grapple. Employ drowning/choking rules, if the lasso lands around a neck. If it lands around the feet, like a bola, make an attack like you would if you were making a trip attack - assuming the foe was land-based at the time. IMO.
pukunui 01-18-08, 08:53 PM	I thought about ranged touch but grappled seemed better because the creature ought to have the chance to escape the noose. In this instance, both the PC and the enemy were flying. I believe the player was trying to lasso the lion's head on the chimera. The other thing to consider is that the PC in question was a halfling. So I imagine that even if he had succeeded in lassoing the chimera, it probably would have had little trouble yanking the halfling off his giant owl. How would I have adjudicated that? Opposed Strength checks? And if the halfling loses, he has the opportunity to let go of the rope or be pulled off? And if he gets pulled off, would he have to make a Dex check to maintain a hold on the rope or something?
KyoMamoru 01-18-08, 09:06 PM	1) Throw Weapon. [Range 30 feet] 2) Ranged Touch Attack. 3) Bind Check. 4) Grapple Check. Touch Attacks Some attacks disregard armor, including shields and natural armor. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Obviously, having armor isn't going to prevent you from being lassoed. Makes sense to have it as a touch attack. Bind a Character When you bind another character with a rope, any Escape Artist check that the bound character makes is opposed by your Use Rope check. You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape. This is pretty much the only thing that I could find the the SRD about it. This pertains to what I'd assume to be a situation where the players are in the same square, however. The grapple check is to make everything final in regards to who has control. If he fails, then even if the roping was done perfectly, the monster is able to escape his grasp. Once all the checks are done though, you have a VERY favorable situation in combat. Risk vs Reward.
Rood_Inverse 01-18-08, 09:07 PM	EDIT: Never mind this comment... I like Kyo's answer. I thought about ranged touch but grappled seemed better because the creature ought to have the chance to escape the noose. Opposed STR checks. There are three options: the rope gets pulled out of the PCs hands, the PC holds onto the rope and is pulled from the saddle, the PC chokes the target with the lasso. But you're not trying to wrestle him. You're just trying to get the lasso to touch him, swing around his neck. Then you have the opposed checks. I think it's more about the order it happens in that determines the check. Or you could wholesale subsitute trip attack mechanics, and call them lasso attack mechanics, for flavor.
pukunui 01-18-08, 09:18 PM	OK. Thanks. Shoulda gone with my gut then ... my first thought was ranged touch. Just didn't know where to take it after that, so I looked at grapple, which said melee attack first. Since that didn't seem appropriate, I thought regular ranged attack instead even though at the back of my mind I knew that probably wasn't right. Oh well. Thanks guys. Will file it away for future reference.
Ivellius 01-18-08, 09:18 PM	Pehaps in addition to what was said above, if the lassoer wins you could try treating it like an entanglement (see the net for details). Maybe downgrade the penalties a little if you think they're too much to represent merely having a rope around you, but I think it could work. If the lassoer fails the strength check to keep the target in place, then he/she can be pulled (maybe a reverse bullrush-type maneuver?).
pukunui 01-18-08, 09:45 PM	Pehaps in addition to what was said above, if the lassoer wins you could try treating it like an entanglement (see the net for details). Maybe downgrade the penalties a little if you think they're too much to represent merely having a rope around you, but I think it could work. If the lassoer fails the strength check to keep the target in place, then he/she can be pulled (maybe a reverse bullrush-type maneuver?). OK. Thanks.
Kouk 01-19-08, 02:23 AM	There are rules for a lasso in Races of Faerun I believe.
pukunui 01-19-08, 02:51 AM	There are rules for a lasso in Races of Faerun I believe. Really?! I'll have to check it out. Thanks. EDIT: OK, Races of Faerun has rules that are fairly similar to what everyone's said here. A lasso's range increment is 10ft and its max range can't exceed the length of the rope minus 5ft (for the loop, obviously). You make a ranged touch attack with it. If successful, you then start a grapple with a -4 penalty (not really sure why). If the grappled is successful, you can then attempt to trip the opponent. You are not considered to be grappling while using a lasso. You can tie the rope to your mount's saddle and use the mount's modifiers for the check as well. As usual, if you are in turn tripped while attempting to trip your opponent, you can just let go of the rope to avoid being tripped (so much for being yanked out of the saddle ... :rolleyes:). The only thing I'm not sure about is that it says you can only use a lasso on Medium or smaller creatures. Anyone have any idea why that is? Can you not make a noose big enough for a Large or larger creature? Or is it just that a "Medium" lasso can only affect Medium or smaller creatures and you'd need a "Large" lasso to affect a bigger person (and if you're only Medium, then you'd take the penalty for using a weapon too large for you, etc etc)?
Rood_Inverse 01-19-08, 10:01 AM	A touch of realism? It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you. But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't.
pukunui 01-19-08, 03:09 PM	A touch of realism? It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you. But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't. I think it is a touch of realism ... but I think also that it has to do with creature/weapon size. A Medium person using a lasso sized for him is only going to be able to snare Medium or smaller people. In order to snare a larger creature, you'd either need a Large person wielding a Large lasso, or else the Medium person would have to make the noose bigger and thus take the "using a weapon too large for you" penalty. I think that makes sense and is in keeping with the "touch of realism". A bigger creature ought to be able to keep a bigger noose in the air without it flopping around. EDIT: Now, here's the hypothetical question. Assuming the mounted PC is able to snag his enemy with a lasso ... if he fails the subsequent trip attempt, he can just let go of the rope to avoid being pulled out of the saddle because it's still technically his turn. However, let's say he snags the enemy and succeeds in "tripping" the enemy with the lasso but the enemy then takes ahold of the rope and gives a good hard pull on it on its turn. I guess this would be considered another trip attempt? Would the PC still be able to drop the rope to avoid being tripped? Or can the enemy potentially succeed in pulling the PC out of the saddle?
Heros_Backpack 01-19-08, 06:42 PM	A touch of realism? It's really hard to swing and maintain a lasso any bigger than a medium creature, I'd imagine. You wouldn't be able to keep anything bigger in the air before the whole rope just flopped around you. But, you're right, I haven't seen a genuine, mechanical reason why you couldn't. Given that a whole lot of real life people regularly used lassoes to catch horses and cattle, I'd be more inclined to houserule that a lasso is similar to a net and can only be used on creatures within one size category of the wielder.
Rood_Inverse 01-19-08, 06:50 PM	However, let's say he snags the enemy and succeeds in "tripping" the enemy with the lasso but the enemy then takes ahold of the rope and gives a good hard pull on it on its turn. I guess this would be considered another trip attempt? Would the PC still be able to drop the rope to avoid being tripped? Or can the enemy potentially succeed in pulling the PC out of the saddle? Isn't there a section that details, "if the opposing role is 5+ better than your role, you cannot..." and "if the opposing roll is within 5 of your roll, nothing happens?" I can't remember if it had to do with attacks or skill checks, and I can't find the page right now. ... But that's something I'd use, off the top of my head, to determine if he gets pulled with the rope. If he fails by more than 5 on his opposed STR check, he goes down.
pukunui 01-19-08, 06:57 PM	Given that a whole lot of real life people regularly used lassoes to catch horses and cattle, I'd be more inclined to houserule that a lasso is similar to a net and can only be used on creatures within one size category of the wielder.That's sort of what I was assuming with the lasso in Races of Faerun. I figured they must have been treating it as a Medium-sized creature's lasso and, as they often do, are leaving it up to you to look in the DMG to see how it would be different for bigger and/or smaller creatures. Isn't there a section that details, "if the opposing role is 5+ better than your role, you cannot..." and "if the opposing roll is within 5 of your roll, nothing happens?" I can't remember if it had to do with attacks or skill checks, and I can't find the page right now. ... But that's something I'd use, off the top of my head, to determine if he gets pulled with the rope. If he fails by more than 5 on his opposed STR check, he goes down.Can't say I recall ever reading that one. It certainly doesn't say anything like that in the Trip mechanics. There are a few Skills where if you fail by less than 5, it's not as bad as if you fail by more (Climb is one, where if you fail by less than 5, you make no progress, but if you fail by more than 5, you fall).
Mock26 01-20-08, 03:08 AM	I would impose a -2 penalty for using regular rope as a lasso. The rope used for lassos is normally very stiff. That's what allows it to hold its shape while it is twirled and when it is thrown. If you make a lasso out of regular rope, even a good climbing rope, and twirl it over your head it will elongate out and the loop will close.
pukunui 01-20-08, 04:16 AM	I would impose a -2 penalty for using regular rope as a lasso. The rope used for lassos is normally very stiff. That's what allows it to hold its shape while it is twirled and when it is thrown. If you make a lasso out of regular rope, even a good climbing rope, and twirl it over your head it will elongate out and the loop will close. That could be why the lasso in Races of Faerun costs 10gp. I'm guessing that in this instance, silk rope would actually be worse than regular rope?
Kouk 01-20-08, 06:30 AM	Turns out there is a different version of a "lasso" in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You may prefer that mechanic, it is more like a Net.
pukunui 01-20-08, 02:11 PM	Turns out there is a different version of a "lasso" in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You may prefer that mechanic, it is more like a Net. Hmm. Yes. The mechanics for the BoED lasso are much simpler. No size restrictions, for one thing. And it entangles the foe, although you can also choose to trip them. Distance is 30ft. I also like the bit about how the lassoed creature can continue to run around but if you win an opposed STR check, you can limit their movement to the rope's length. Thanks Kouk! Cheers, Jonathan
mvincent 01-21-08, 12:57 PM	One of my players decided he was going to make a lasso with his rope and try to grab the nearest chimera with it. I had absolutely no idea how to play that one out.Improvised weapon: net (while other sourcebooks have rules for lassos, this is quicker, and requires only the PHB).
wrecan 01-22-08, 01:05 PM	I like mvincent's approach.
monai75 01-22-08, 01:19 PM	what about factoring in use rope skill? I would think this would have some bearing for players who have ranks in the skill...