Level Adjustment Buyback [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level Adjustment Buyback [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tos_shai_hulud
10-09-07, 11:25 PM What would you suggest for level adjustment buyback? Let's say a half-ogre sorcerer uses level adjustment buyback to lower his +2 level adjustment to +1 at 6th level sorcerer and lower his +1 to +0 at 9th level sorcerer, then at 11th level, he crafts a phylactery and performs the ritual to become a lich. The lich template applies a +2 level adjustment to our half-ogre sorcerer. Is it possible for him to buy this level adjustment off? In total, he now has a +4 level adjustment, but he has bought off a +2. By the normal rules from Unearthed Arcana, he would still have a +4 level adjustment until he reached 12th level sorcerer, at which point, he may buy off from +4 level adjustment to +3 level adjustment. When the character becomes a lich, would the transformation provide him with enough experience to return his +4 level adjustment so that he may begin buying it off anew? Or would he simply be incapable of buying off the +2 level adjustment from lich?
Sildatorak
10-10-07, 12:00 AM Lich is +2 CR. It has a +4 LA, so his total adjustment is +6. Also, the lich template can't be applied to giants.
tos_shai_hulud
10-10-07, 12:09 AM Lich is +2 CR. It has a +4 LA, so his total adjustment is +6. Also, the lich template can't be applied to giants.

That was not my point. I am referencing any applied template. You want templates that actually work? Here goes: Half-giant 9th level (level adjustment has been bought back to +0). He is bitten by a wererat, and at the next full moon, changes into a wererat. Now, what is his level adjustment?

ECL = 9 (class levels) + 1 (rat) + 2 (afflicted lycanthrope) + 2 (half-giant)

He has already bought back his +2 from half-giant. What should he do with his new +2 from afflicted lycanthrope? Does his LA jump up to +4 (his original +2 plus his new +2)? Or does it remain +2? Is he capable of buying it off?
Marcus Majarra
10-10-07, 12:12 AM I don't believe LA buyoff was meant to be used with an LA above +3.
tos_shai_hulud
10-10-07, 12:13 AM I don't believe LA buyoff was meant to be used with an LA above +3.

The LA Buyoff written in Unearthed Arcana provides information for buyback of up to a +6 level adjustment. That seems to indicate that it was meant to be used with LA above +3.

Table: Reducing Level Adjustments gives the levels at which level adjustments are eligible to be reduced for starting level adjustments of +1 to +6. Creatures with a level adjustment of +7 or more retain their full normal level adjustment until reaching epic levels (21st level or higher), and thus aren't included on the table. However, you can follow the pattern described above to determine when such creatures' level adjustments can be decreased.
Sildatorak
10-10-07, 12:47 AM That was not my point.Sorry, I had a bit in there that I must have accidentally deleted when I realized the base creature was a giant:embarrass

I would allow them to buy off the new LA whenever they become eligible for it. LA doesn't scale linearly. A drow lich is totally not worth a +6 LA. It is barely stronger than a normal lich even though a drow is notably more powerful than a normal elf.
calronmoonflower
10-10-07, 04:35 AM Add up all the original LA and give him back any that he couldn't have bought off at that point.
runestar
10-10-07, 04:42 AM The LA Buyoff written in Unearthed Arcana provides information for buyback of up to a +6 level adjustment. That seems to indicate that it was meant to be used with LA above +3.

Yes, but for a LA of +6, the soonest you can buy it back is when you have 18 class lvs. Even LA of +3 or more are problematic, especially if you have racial HD compounding this problem. Not many games may even reach that far.

While it does make provisions for eventually buying off your LA, however high (heck, you could in theory buy start buying off your LA of +33 at lv99), it appears to work well only mainly on races with LA of +1 and no racial HD, such as goliaths, planetouched etc. Take a gnoll or bugbear for example. The soonest you can buy back their LA is at ECL6 or 7, quite a long way off, IMO.

LA of +2 or more, or those with racial HD seem to get the short end of the stick, IMO.:(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tos_shai_hulud 10-09-07, 11:25 PM	What would you suggest for level adjustment buyback? Let's say a half-ogre sorcerer uses level adjustment buyback to lower his +2 level adjustment to +1 at 6th level sorcerer and lower his +1 to +0 at 9th level sorcerer, then at 11th level, he crafts a phylactery and performs the ritual to become a lich. The lich template applies a +2 level adjustment to our half-ogre sorcerer. Is it possible for him to buy this level adjustment off? In total, he now has a +4 level adjustment, but he has bought off a +2. By the normal rules from Unearthed Arcana, he would still have a +4 level adjustment until he reached 12th level sorcerer, at which point, he may buy off from +4 level adjustment to +3 level adjustment. When the character becomes a lich, would the transformation provide him with enough experience to return his +4 level adjustment so that he may begin buying it off anew? Or would he simply be incapable of buying off the +2 level adjustment from lich?
Sildatorak 10-10-07, 12:00 AM	Lich is +2 CR. It has a +4 LA, so his total adjustment is +6. Also, the lich template can't be applied to giants.
tos_shai_hulud 10-10-07, 12:09 AM	Lich is +2 CR. It has a +4 LA, so his total adjustment is +6. Also, the lich template can't be applied to giants. That was not my point. I am referencing any applied template. You want templates that actually work? Here goes: Half-giant 9th level (level adjustment has been bought back to +0). He is bitten by a wererat, and at the next full moon, changes into a wererat. Now, what is his level adjustment? ECL = 9 (class levels) + 1 (rat) + 2 (afflicted lycanthrope) + 2 (half-giant) He has already bought back his +2 from half-giant. What should he do with his new +2 from afflicted lycanthrope? Does his LA jump up to +4 (his original +2 plus his new +2)? Or does it remain +2? Is he capable of buying it off?
Marcus Majarra 10-10-07, 12:12 AM	I don't believe LA buyoff was meant to be used with an LA above +3.
tos_shai_hulud 10-10-07, 12:13 AM	I don't believe LA buyoff was meant to be used with an LA above +3. The LA Buyoff written in Unearthed Arcana provides information for buyback of up to a +6 level adjustment. That seems to indicate that it was meant to be used with LA above +3. Table: Reducing Level Adjustments gives the levels at which level adjustments are eligible to be reduced for starting level adjustments of +1 to +6. Creatures with a level adjustment of +7 or more retain their full normal level adjustment until reaching epic levels (21st level or higher), and thus aren't included on the table. However, you can follow the pattern described above to determine when such creatures' level adjustments can be decreased.
Sildatorak 10-10-07, 12:47 AM	That was not my point.Sorry, I had a bit in there that I must have accidentally deleted when I realized the base creature was a giant:embarrass I would allow them to buy off the new LA whenever they become eligible for it. LA doesn't scale linearly. A drow lich is totally not worth a +6 LA. It is barely stronger than a normal lich even though a drow is notably more powerful than a normal elf.
calronmoonflower 10-10-07, 04:35 AM	Add up all the original LA and give him back any that he couldn't have bought off at that point.
runestar 10-10-07, 04:42 AM	The LA Buyoff written in Unearthed Arcana provides information for buyback of up to a +6 level adjustment. That seems to indicate that it was meant to be used with LA above +3. Yes, but for a LA of +6, the soonest you can buy it back is when you have 18 class lvs. Even LA of +3 or more are problematic, especially if you have racial HD compounding this problem. Not many games may even reach that far. While it does make provisions for eventually buying off your LA, however high (heck, you could in theory buy start buying off your LA of +33 at lv99), it appears to work well only mainly on races with LA of +1 and no racial HD, such as goliaths, planetouched etc. Take a gnoll or bugbear for example. The soonest you can buy back their LA is at ECL6 or 7, quite a long way off, IMO. LA of +2 or more, or those with racial HD seem to get the short end of the stick, IMO.:(