lich half-black dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

lich half-black dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ryuspearhead
07-23-07, 05:01 PM I'm working on a final boss of a lv 14 sor./ lv 7 dragon disciple , but i want to have him become a half-dragon near the end of there campaign.

the hook - he's in a pact with taihmet (sp) if he reaches lv 9 he'll get his life back but retain all his lich abilities and be made a demi-god , the PC's must stop him before he can do that (twist- they only have 3 days and the dungeon is 2 days away by most types of travel .

my question is he needs blood to progress is there any way (maybe an item) that he can keep is blood without bending the rules to much ?
Anathema
07-23-07, 05:05 PM Do you mean keep the blood that's in his body?

If he's undead, he can just bleed himself out and store the liquid in a jar or some such.

If that's not what you meant, could you clarify?
ryuspearhead
07-23-07, 05:18 PM if he stores it in a jar can he still progress as a dragon disciple ?
Anathema
07-23-07, 05:25 PM I don't see why not .. the only conflict I see is that he couldn't obtain the half-dragon template while he's a lich (since his type is undead, not humanoid).

There really aren't rules that specify what you can and can't do without blood in your body.
ryuspearhead
07-23-07, 05:52 PM ok , is there any item or spell that could change is type for a short time ?
Anathema
07-23-07, 05:56 PM Honestly I wouldn't worry so much about being strict by the rules here. Dracoliches exist as well as liches .. it's not that much of a stretch to say that someone gifted by a deity can do things outside of the rules.

Rules shouldn't get in the way of a good character or story, from the DM's side of the board.
ryuspearhead
07-23-07, 06:07 PM yah , im tring to deal with a hard core dm as a player thou he doesn't mind some mods but he thinks its to much i thought if a found a rule , item , or spell it might work

(i hate dm players - not dmpc's just dm as players not being the dm)
Meep326
07-23-07, 07:34 PM I don't see why not .. the only conflict I see is that he couldn't obtain the half-dragon template while he's a lich (since his type is undead, not humanoid).

There really aren't rules that specify what you can and can't do without blood in your body.
His type is Undead (Augmented Humanoid) if I remember co******ly, and the Dragon Disciple class is changing you magically as your body manifests some mystical heritage between you and dragons.
runestar
07-23-07, 10:49 PM Scrap the lvs of dragon disciple and replace it with the half-dragon template, then throw on the dracolich template if you must. Your sorc will suck for a cr19, but it is still way better than the cr21 version you are throwing at your PCs (which is honestly way too weak).
eamon
07-24-07, 08:03 AM You'll probably want to estimate the CR independently anyways, because it'll be much lower than the normal guidelines will indicate. That's not exactly easy though... You could start off comparing it to a few demons, devils & dragons of your target challenge rating, and then simply add class levels until the power is about right.
ryuspearhead
07-24-07, 03:20 PM Scrap the lvs of dragon disciple and replace it with the half-dragon template, then throw on the dracolich template if you must. Your sorc will suck for a cr19, but it is still way better than the cr21 version you are throwing at your PCs (which is honestly way too weak).
that would mean me having to alter the campaign in a mahjor way the goal is to stop him from becoming a half dragon and then a demi god
ShubNiggurath
07-24-07, 03:50 PM First of all your CR 21 BBEG could probably be killed easily by a well optimized lev 14 group. Maybe even lev 12.

Do this: sorcerer 1/barbarian 4/Dragon disciple 10/frenzied berserker 5

Either give him high INT (well, >9) or the able learner feat. Or be a human.
If I can suggest a race he probably works better as an half-ogre though (drop frenzied berserker levels).

The story could be that he is a sorcerer 1/barbarian 4/DD 9 and he is about to sacrifice something or someONE to get the last XP for the 10th level of DD and become an half dragon.

If the above is too weak (at CR 14) for your group, add a strong race/template with LA (half ogre, half minotaur) or some barbarian or FB levels. Maybe 2 levels of fighter.

About the lick/half dragon interaction, he could become a lich BEFORE getting that 10th half dragon level.... but be serious, you don't need a template fest to create a memorable BBEG.
Make him half fiendish instead of lich if you really need to.
Elessar
07-24-07, 10:49 PM His type is Undead (Augmented Humanoid) if I remember co******ly, and the Dragon Disciple class is changing you magically as your body manifests some mystical heritage between you and dragons.

Quite right. Lady Vol from Eberron is a half-dragon elf lich, so there's an official precedent at the very least. Also, that typo is too funny to be believed.

And to the original poster, you could just rule that the term "blood" refers to "heritage", not actual liquid. That's the easiest solution, I think.
runestar
07-25-07, 06:05 AM that would mean me having to alter the campaign in a mahjor way the goal is to stop him from becoming a half dragon and then a demi god
Just say that he has discovered some ritual to add the half-dragon template onto him. If you want a partial half-dragon template, then use the half-dragon SS progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a) and add on the first 2 lvs of it, for a cr+1 adjustment.

You still get +4str, +2int, +2con and +3NA.
eamon
07-25-07, 10:11 AM Or instead of all this number crunching, just set his CR lower... problem solved.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ryuspearhead 07-23-07, 05:01 PM	I'm working on a final boss of a lv 14 sor./ lv 7 dragon disciple , but i want to have him become a half-dragon near the end of there campaign. the hook - he's in a pact with taihmet (sp) if he reaches lv 9 he'll get his life back but retain all his lich abilities and be made a demi-god , the PC's must stop him before he can do that (twist- they only have 3 days and the dungeon is 2 days away by most types of travel . my question is he needs blood to progress is there any way (maybe an item) that he can keep is blood without bending the rules to much ?
Anathema 07-23-07, 05:05 PM	Do you mean keep the blood that's in his body? If he's undead, he can just bleed himself out and store the liquid in a jar or some such. If that's not what you meant, could you clarify?
ryuspearhead 07-23-07, 05:18 PM	if he stores it in a jar can he still progress as a dragon disciple ?
Anathema 07-23-07, 05:25 PM	I don't see why not .. the only conflict I see is that he couldn't obtain the half-dragon template while he's a lich (since his type is undead, not humanoid). There really aren't rules that specify what you can and can't do without blood in your body.
ryuspearhead 07-23-07, 05:52 PM	ok , is there any item or spell that could change is type for a short time ?
Anathema 07-23-07, 05:56 PM	Honestly I wouldn't worry so much about being strict by the rules here. Dracoliches exist as well as liches .. it's not that much of a stretch to say that someone gifted by a deity can do things outside of the rules. Rules shouldn't get in the way of a good character or story, from the DM's side of the board.
ryuspearhead 07-23-07, 06:07 PM	yah , im tring to deal with a hard core dm as a player thou he doesn't mind some mods but he thinks its to much i thought if a found a rule , item , or spell it might work (i hate dm players - not dmpc's just dm as players not being the dm)
Meep326 07-23-07, 07:34 PM	I don't see why not .. the only conflict I see is that he couldn't obtain the half-dragon template while he's a lich (since his type is undead, not humanoid). There really aren't rules that specify what you can and can't do without blood in your body. His type is Undead (Augmented Humanoid) if I remember co******ly, and the Dragon Disciple class is changing you magically as your body manifests some mystical heritage between you and dragons.
runestar 07-23-07, 10:49 PM	Scrap the lvs of dragon disciple and replace it with the half-dragon template, then throw on the dracolich template if you must. Your sorc will suck for a cr19, but it is still way better than the cr21 version you are throwing at your PCs (which is honestly way too weak).
eamon 07-24-07, 08:03 AM	You'll probably want to estimate the CR independently anyways, because it'll be much lower than the normal guidelines will indicate. That's not exactly easy though... You could start off comparing it to a few demons, devils & dragons of your target challenge rating, and then simply add class levels until the power is about right.
ryuspearhead 07-24-07, 03:20 PM	Scrap the lvs of dragon disciple and replace it with the half-dragon template, then throw on the dracolich template if you must. Your sorc will suck for a cr19, but it is still way better than the cr21 version you are throwing at your PCs (which is honestly way too weak). that would mean me having to alter the campaign in a mahjor way the goal is to stop him from becoming a half dragon and then a demi god
ShubNiggurath 07-24-07, 03:50 PM	First of all your CR 21 BBEG could probably be killed easily by a well optimized lev 14 group. Maybe even lev 12. Do this: sorcerer 1/barbarian 4/Dragon disciple 10/frenzied berserker 5 Either give him high INT (well, >9) or the able learner feat. Or be a human. If I can suggest a race he probably works better as an half-ogre though (drop frenzied berserker levels). The story could be that he is a sorcerer 1/barbarian 4/DD 9 and he is about to sacrifice something or someONE to get the last XP for the 10th level of DD and become an half dragon. If the above is too weak (at CR 14) for your group, add a strong race/template with LA (half ogre, half minotaur) or some barbarian or FB levels. Maybe 2 levels of fighter. About the lick/half dragon interaction, he could become a lich BEFORE getting that 10th half dragon level.... but be serious, you don't need a template fest to create a memorable BBEG. Make him half fiendish instead of lich if you really need to.
Elessar 07-24-07, 10:49 PM	His type is Undead (Augmented Humanoid) if I remember co******ly, and the Dragon Disciple class is changing you magically as your body manifests some mystical heritage between you and dragons. Quite right. Lady Vol from Eberron is a half-dragon elf lich, so there's an official precedent at the very least. Also, that typo is too funny to be believed. And to the original poster, you could just rule that the term "blood" refers to "heritage", not actual liquid. That's the easiest solution, I think.
runestar 07-25-07, 06:05 AM	that would mean me having to alter the campaign in a mahjor way the goal is to stop him from becoming a half dragon and then a demi god Just say that he has discovered some ritual to add the half-dragon template onto him. If you want a partial half-dragon template, then use the half-dragon SS progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a) and add on the first 2 lvs of it, for a cr+1 adjustment. You still get +4str, +2int, +2con and +3NA.
eamon 07-25-07, 10:11 AM	Or instead of all this number crunching, just set his CR lower... problem solved.