Post/Author/DateTime	Post
daytripper 03-29-07, 09:44 AM	I'm trying to understand the pricing on a lantern of revealing. Table 7-33 on pg 285 of the DMG states that a "Use-activated or continuous" Wondrous Item should be priced as: Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000gp [with a reference of note #2, see below] So, for invisibility purge (the spell on which the lantern is based), we looking at 3 x 5 x 2,000gp = 30,000gp (which is given as the price for the lantern in the DMG) Note #2, however, states that for continuous items based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. For durations of 1 minute per level, multiply the cost by 2. For durations of 10/minutes per level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. Based on the duration of invisibility purge, it seems that the latern of revealing should cost 60,000pg (due to its 1 minute/level duration). The fact that it isn't must mean one of two things: 1) there is an error in the price (not supported by the errata or FAQ), or 2) Note #2 applies only to "continuous items" not "use-activated" items, and the lantern is a use-activated item (since it will only work when lit). I assume it is the latter. Is my assumption correct? Restated: Only "continuous" items are subject to Note #2 of Table 7-33. The latern of revealing is not a continuous item, because it only works when lit. Therefore, the latern of revealing is not subject to note #2. Are the premises true?
Selgard 03-29-07, 09:55 AM	The items in the DMG do not always conform to the "strict" guidelines, because the "strict" guidelines aren't strict. They are merely a way for the DM to get a starting point- a point from which he either adds or subtracts, to get the desired result. In this case, they either 1) made a mistake (always possible, unfortunately) or 2) they did the math, found it to be unsatisfactory, and adjusted the price according to what the item probably should be worth. It's a similar process to what should happen when the PC's try to make those infinite -True Strike- items and such. The math is only the beginning.
orionm42 03-29-07, 10:01 AM	In this case, they either 1) made a mistake (always possible, unfortunately) or 2) they did the math, found it to be unsatisfactory, and adjusted the price according to what the item probably should be worth. The latter most likely. Selgard is exactly right...many items in the DMG don't follow the formulas and are adjusted for their "worth" in the game. Here is a quote from the DMG... Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staffs follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.
Merestil Haye 03-29-07, 01:09 PM	If applying the guidelines, only continuously active items are subject to a price adjustment for the duration of the spell. The Lantern of Revealing is not a continuous item but a use-activated one. its power only applies while the lantern is lit. Therefore the price multiplier for the duration of the spell does not apply. The formula for a use-activated item of a 3rd level spell at CL5 is 3 * 5 * 2,000 = 30,000gp; this exactly matches the price of a Lantern of Revealing. The evaluation of cost vs power level should only be carried out after making an initial cut of the item's price, and it is good to use the correct formula where available. In this case, the designers must have decided that pitching the lantern at 13th level play seems about right. Given that by this level, spellcasters should have access to 6th and 7th level spells, relegating the 3rd level spells to utility and buff (plus the fact that casting an Invisibility Purge reveals invisible stuff in a far larger radius than 25', and the spell can be Persisted at 17th or with DMM) means that the judgement is not unreasonable.
daytripper 03-29-07, 02:24 PM	Thanks all!