Making Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
uglykitten
07-05-07, 11:34 PM I've been playing Dnd for the last five months. I've been a DM for three of those five. My husband has played for a year longer than me, but had never DMed until about two months ago. I let him take care of his own character sheet while I was DM, thinking that with his experience as a gamer, he'd be able to do everything correctly on his own. Not so, as by the end of the campaign, his skill points were completely spiraling far beyond the count his elven Monk Sorcerer level 24 should ever have been. His feats were questionable, and he began stating that he could "make" items that were far more questionable at the end of the campaign.

My major questions are about making items, who can make them, what they need, and the general time period. My DM friend heard some of the items my husband was "making" during our campaign and he said that some of them were waaaaay out there. For instance, there was a a construct of some sort that he'd said should only have been allowed if said character had 2 or 3 months and a Craft skill check. I've read through the "craft" skill in the PHB but I'm completely at a loss.

There were some other questionable activities with the character sheet, including a few sudden bits of information. Like, for instance, he'd added a demonic template to himself sometime between level 17 and 19. I wasn't aware until the very last battle and by then it didn't matter. He spent the last four levels of the campaign sitting back and "allowing" the other characters to do the dirty work while he watched. I don't know exactly where he went awry, but I do know that he added plenty more than he should have had with his character. I used his original stats and added what should have been--minus template and weirdly added skills--and he was nearly half as powerful. I know he's an epic-level character, but still...

It's mainly the items that I'm concerned with. I'm sorry for so much overtalk here, but he wants to go and "make items" again with a wizard-fighter, and I'd really rather know what rules there are. T__T
Myers
07-06-07, 12:51 AM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#craftConstruct

Basically making a construct requires the craft construct feat, of which you have to have craft magic arms and armor as well as craft wondrous item and the spells required for whatever construct your making, just like crafting a wondrous item. Gold and XP costs are listed in the descriptions of the monsters
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm
Kouk
07-06-07, 06:47 AM You are a new DM, so some things like this are inevitable.

A player should never just be allowed to do his own thing, no matter how knowledgeable he may be. In this case, the "player" seems to have actually been wrong about a great deal of things, and he did not run any of it by you, the DM.

You should ask for a copy of each player's character sheet every time they level up, and they should consult you about any strange (non-core) choices they make before they become permanent. You don't have to keep a back-log of all the old character sheets, it is fine to just update a second copy with the new information, but older sheets can help in case of level loss, or copies are useful if a player forgets his sheets one day. The biggest reason to have copies is so that you can, at your leisure, review the characters and make sure that everything is correct and that you know what to expect from them.

To craft any kind of Construct requires the Craft Construct feat, which is in the Monster Manual. The prerequisites of that feat are two other feats, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Items. The Craft(whatever) skills do not have anything to do with this in the slightest. The most useful things you can make with Craft skills in D&D are mundane weapons and armor, or Alchemical items (but you have to be a spellcaster to make alchemical items).
A player should consult the DM before taking Craft Construct because it is such a powerful ability that many DMs do not wish to deal with. That is part of the reason it is hidden in the Monster Manual, it is mostly for NPC villains.

You can apply templates in certain instances, via some Prestige Classes, but you should have been aware of what his classes were and how they function Any class should be discussed with the DM before taking it (even supplemental base classes), the DMG and other books make it quite clear that any Prestige Class (PrC) is subject to DM approval (everything is, but they make it extra-clear in this case).

Finally, many strange and powerful things can be done completely within the rules. It is up to your judgment on whether to allow anything, even if it is technically following the letter of the rules. You should start by compiling a list of what books and supplements you allow in your campaign and make that available to all the players. This way you can limit what is available, and you will have some idea of what they might be choosing. All kinds of items should also be discussed with you prior to purchasing or upgrading. Simple, core things are not necessary, but anything magical and anything from a supplemental book should be brought to your attention before a player puts it on his sheet, unless you have consented to an entire book (it's still good manners to let the DM know when you buy something weird).
DrMorganes
07-06-07, 08:30 AM o.O

Your husband pulled this in your game?!

I'm certain you'll come up with a suitable out of game method for dealing with such shennanigans. (Perhaps involving a couch, two or three weeks, and the phrase "No way, buster!" :evillaugh )

In terms of the game, however, DEFINITELY review ALL character sheets on a regular basis. My rule of thumb is immediately following level-up, or every 4th game session. Generally I try to keep a copy of everyone's sheet for my own reference during the game, and I let them know that I'll be using MY copy for various dice rolls. This is nearly always enough to keep 'em honest.

As far as rules questions go, you can play the game for decades and still have questions. I've been playing for 24 years, and still get stumped by some of the things players want to do. When you get stumped, don't be afraid to make an ad hoc ruling in the moment, saying, "This is how we'll handle X right now. After today's game we'll decide how it really works." That's part of the DM's job description. (Back in the day, Gygax used the term "referee" interchangably with "Dungeon Master". It's fitting.)

If players want to create their own magic items, let them! Just review the rules for item creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) first. At a minimum, crafting magic items requires a certain number of levels in a spellcasting class, having the appropriate Item Creation Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm) (e.g., Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, or Craft Magic Arms and Armor), knowledge of a specific spell, TIME, and a fairly large amount of coin. Be sure to post player suggested items on the forums for review if you're at all unsure.
Phrennzy
07-06-07, 10:25 AM I lol'd.

Your husband is cheating.

If you want to continue this game with those characters, you should audit all of them down to their actual power level.

My suggestion is to just start over at level 1. And then don't let him 'take care' of his sheet. Get copies of everyone's sheets, and make sure you keep on top of his.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
uglykitten 07-05-07, 11:34 PM	I've been playing Dnd for the last five months. I've been a DM for three of those five. My husband has played for a year longer than me, but had never DMed until about two months ago. I let him take care of his own character sheet while I was DM, thinking that with his experience as a gamer, he'd be able to do everything correctly on his own. Not so, as by the end of the campaign, his skill points were completely spiraling far beyond the count his elven Monk Sorcerer level 24 should ever have been. His feats were questionable, and he began stating that he could "make" items that were far more questionable at the end of the campaign. My major questions are about making items, who can make them, what they need, and the general time period. My DM friend heard some of the items my husband was "making" during our campaign and he said that some of them were waaaaay out there. For instance, there was a a construct of some sort that he'd said should only have been allowed if said character had 2 or 3 months and a Craft skill check. I've read through the "craft" skill in the PHB but I'm completely at a loss. There were some other questionable activities with the character sheet, including a few sudden bits of information. Like, for instance, he'd added a demonic template to himself sometime between level 17 and 19. I wasn't aware until the very last battle and by then it didn't matter. He spent the last four levels of the campaign sitting back and "allowing" the other characters to do the dirty work while he watched. I don't know exactly where he went awry, but I do know that he added plenty more than he should have had with his character. I used his original stats and added what should have been--minus template and weirdly added skills--and he was nearly half as powerful. I know he's an epic-level character, but still... It's mainly the items that I'm concerned with. I'm sorry for so much overtalk here, but he wants to go and "make items" again with a wizard-fighter, and I'd really rather know what rules there are. T__T
Myers 07-06-07, 12:51 AM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#craftConstruct Basically making a construct requires the craft construct feat, of which you have to have craft magic arms and armor as well as craft wondrous item and the spells required for whatever construct your making, just like crafting a wondrous item. Gold and XP costs are listed in the descriptions of the monsters http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm
Kouk 07-06-07, 06:47 AM	You are a new DM, so some things like this are inevitable. A player should never just be allowed to do his own thing, no matter how knowledgeable he may be. In this case, the "player" seems to have actually been wrong about a great deal of things, and he did not run any of it by you, the DM. You should ask for a copy of each player's character sheet every time they level up, and they should consult you about any strange (non-core) choices they make before they become permanent. You don't have to keep a back-log of all the old character sheets, it is fine to just update a second copy with the new information, but older sheets can help in case of level loss, or copies are useful if a player forgets his sheets one day. The biggest reason to have copies is so that you can, at your leisure, review the characters and make sure that everything is correct and that you know what to expect from them. To craft any kind of Construct requires the Craft Construct feat, which is in the Monster Manual. The prerequisites of that feat are two other feats, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Items. The Craft(whatever) skills do not have anything to do with this in the slightest. The most useful things you can make with Craft skills in D&D are mundane weapons and armor, or Alchemical items (but you have to be a spellcaster to make alchemical items). A player should consult the DM before taking Craft Construct because it is such a powerful ability that many DMs do not wish to deal with. That is part of the reason it is hidden in the Monster Manual, it is mostly for NPC villains. You can apply templates in certain instances, via some Prestige Classes, but you should have been aware of what his classes were and how they function Any class should be discussed with the DM before taking it (even supplemental base classes), the DMG and other books make it quite clear that any Prestige Class (PrC) is subject to DM approval (everything is, but they make it extra-clear in this case). Finally, many strange and powerful things can be done completely within the rules. It is up to your judgment on whether to allow anything, even if it is technically following the letter of the rules. You should start by compiling a list of what books and supplements you allow in your campaign and make that available to all the players. This way you can limit what is available, and you will have some idea of what they might be choosing. All kinds of items should also be discussed with you prior to purchasing or upgrading. Simple, core things are not necessary, but anything magical and anything from a supplemental book should be brought to your attention before a player puts it on his sheet, unless you have consented to an entire book (it's still good manners to let the DM know when you buy something weird).
DrMorganes 07-06-07, 08:30 AM	o.O Your husband pulled this in your game?! I'm certain you'll come up with a suitable out of game method for dealing with such shennanigans. (Perhaps involving a couch, two or three weeks, and the phrase "No way, buster!" :evillaugh ) In terms of the game, however, DEFINITELY review ALL character sheets on a regular basis. My rule of thumb is immediately following level-up, or every 4th game session. Generally I try to keep a copy of everyone's sheet for my own reference during the game, and I let them know that I'll be using MY copy for various dice rolls. This is nearly always enough to keep 'em honest. As far as rules questions go, you can play the game for decades and still have questions. I've been playing for 24 years, and still get stumped by some of the things players want to do. When you get stumped, don't be afraid to make an ad hoc ruling in the moment, saying, "This is how we'll handle X right now. After today's game we'll decide how it really works." That's part of the DM's job description. (Back in the day, Gygax used the term "referee" interchangably with "Dungeon Master". It's fitting.) If players want to create their own magic items, let them! Just review the rules for item creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) first. At a minimum, crafting magic items requires a certain number of levels in a spellcasting class, having the appropriate Item Creation Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm) (e.g., Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, or Craft Magic Arms and Armor), knowledge of a specific spell, TIME, and a fairly large amount of coin. Be sure to post player suggested items on the forums for review if you're at all unsure.
Phrennzy 07-06-07, 10:25 AM	I lol'd. Your husband is cheating. If you want to continue this game with those characters, you should audit all of them down to their actual power level. My suggestion is to just start over at level 1. And then don't let him 'take care' of his sheet. Get copies of everyone's sheets, and make sure you keep on top of his.