Minimum Character Level for 24/7 Intelligent Constructs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Minimum Character Level for 24/7 Intelligent Constructs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
p9522935
10-25-07, 09:39 AM Objective:
To use player-character abilities to make an intelligent construct that

(a) can operate 24/7
(b) uses only Core Rules (no Eberron and no Faerun rules allowed)
(c) will not inflict damage on caster if killed (no homonculi need apply)

Constraint: Minimize necessary player character level.

Fact 1: Animate Objects is a Cleric 6 spell, normally requiring an 11th level Cleric to cast

Fact 2: Figurines of Wondrous Power (that do not operate 24/7) can be made by casters as low as level 6 (presumably using scrolls purchased from higher-level casters).

Fact 3: p.288 of DMG says that the caster must be at least 15th level to make intelligent items, but this is contradicted by the requirements of figurines of wondrous power on p.257. The onyx dog has an Intelligence score of 8 and requires a caster of 11th level. The silver raven only requires a 6th level caster.

Speculation:
The table of intelligent item creation at:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#tableItemIntelligen ceWisdomCharismaandCapabilities
appears to apply only to intelligent items whose special abilities are used by a wielder; it does not appear to be a rule for creating intelligent autonomous constructs who can use their own powers freely and continuously.

My guess:
Take a wizard and make sure he gets the following feats:
3rd level: Craft Wondrous Item
5th level: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
6th level: Craft Construct

Using Table 7-33, p. 285 DMG, considering "Animate Objects" as 6th level, continuous operation, cast by an 11th level cleric, soon gets ridiculous.

A flesh golem can be made at CL 8. However, having looked at the monster manuals, I'm not seeing anything smaller than a fang golem, which requires CL 7. I could be missing something, or possibly DMs are supposed to use the monster modification rules to make a weaker monster and proportionately reduce the spells required.

Any suggestions on Construct creatures suitable for CL6 wizards are welcomed.

Any suggestions on how to build characters so as to get the lowest possible level for non-homunculus crafting are welcomed.

Thanks.
Venshad
11-15-07, 07:30 PM I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs.

Bump!
weasel0
11-16-07, 07:05 PM May want to try over at the CharOp boards.
p9522935
11-21-07, 09:05 AM I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs.

Bump!

AFAICT, WotC has left the rules quite loose and assumed that DMs will be ready, willing, and able to fill in the gaps.

If one is willing to allow Dragon material, one can add Intelligence ... I have gotten good advice from Lokiyn:

Lokiyn Lokiyn is offline
Member

Join Date: Feb 2004
Default Re: Lowest Level PC to make 24/7 intelligent construct
You need Dragon magazine 341 Pages 40-45, Lesser Golems (Automatons for Amateurs) & Pages 34-39, Forging Friends (Construct Familiars)

Code:

Golem Name Min Market
Fungus Golem 7th 7000
Junk Golem 7th 9000
Paper Golem 5th 600
Tin Golem 5th 6400
Wax Golem 5th 2500
Wood Golem 5th 4000

The tin golem is what you want, a golem with an int of 6, special ability of +6 to two crafts and the ability to speak and wield weapons.

The Familiar Forging has construct familiars as low as level three available.

You need Dragon magazine 327, pages 72-73, Frankenstein

This article has golem augmentations Simply put any construct that has no intelligence score can be granted one, on creation, equal to the crafters caster level / 2 for +8,000gp to the cost to create (granting it also feats and skill points as usual)

That was the most important bit of the thread over at:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943611
Cartigan
11-21-07, 09:19 AM I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs.

Bump!
Effigies don't have intelligence.
Tedronai
11-22-07, 11:04 AM I'll assume that 'Core Rules' does not include Dragon Magazine solutions, so...

Theoretically, you'll need to be at least 6th level (or contrive a method of acquiring 2 feats at 5th) in order to have the necessary Craft Construct feat (which has a prerequisite feat itself requiring CL 5), though individual constructs may have varied caster level requirements.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
p9522935 10-25-07, 09:39 AM	Objective: To use player-character abilities to make an intelligent construct that (a) can operate 24/7 (b) uses only Core Rules (no Eberron and no Faerun rules allowed) (c) will not inflict damage on caster if killed (no homonculi need apply) Constraint: Minimize necessary player character level. Fact 1: Animate Objects is a Cleric 6 spell, normally requiring an 11th level Cleric to cast Fact 2: Figurines of Wondrous Power (that do not operate 24/7) can be made by casters as low as level 6 (presumably using scrolls purchased from higher-level casters). Fact 3: p.288 of DMG says that the caster must be at least 15th level to make intelligent items, but this is contradicted by the requirements of figurines of wondrous power on p.257. The onyx dog has an Intelligence score of 8 and requires a caster of 11th level. The silver raven only requires a 6th level caster. Speculation: The table of intelligent item creation at: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#tableItemIntelligen ceWisdomCharismaandCapabilities appears to apply only to intelligent items whose special abilities are used by a wielder; it does not appear to be a rule for creating intelligent autonomous constructs who can use their own powers freely and continuously. My guess: Take a wizard and make sure he gets the following feats: 3rd level: Craft Wondrous Item 5th level: Craft Magic Arms and Armor 6th level: Craft Construct Using Table 7-33, p. 285 DMG, considering "Animate Objects" as 6th level, continuous operation, cast by an 11th level cleric, soon gets ridiculous. A flesh golem can be made at CL 8. However, having looked at the monster manuals, I'm not seeing anything smaller than a fang golem, which requires CL 7. I could be missing something, or possibly DMs are supposed to use the monster modification rules to make a weaker monster and proportionately reduce the spells required. Any suggestions on Construct creatures suitable for CL6 wizards are welcomed. Any suggestions on how to build characters so as to get the lowest possible level for non-homunculus crafting are welcomed. Thanks.
Venshad 11-15-07, 07:30 PM	I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs. Bump!
weasel0 11-16-07, 07:05 PM	May want to try over at the CharOp boards.
p9522935 11-21-07, 09:05 AM	I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs. Bump! AFAICT, WotC has left the rules quite loose and assumed that DMs will be ready, willing, and able to fill in the gaps. If one is willing to allow Dragon material, one can add Intelligence ... I have gotten good advice from Lokiyn: Lokiyn Lokiyn is offline Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Default Re: Lowest Level PC to make 24/7 intelligent construct You need Dragon magazine 341 Pages 40-45, Lesser Golems (Automatons for Amateurs) & Pages 34-39, Forging Friends (Construct Familiars) Code: Golem Name Min Market Fungus Golem 7th 7000 Junk Golem 7th 9000 Paper Golem 5th 600 Tin Golem 5th 6400 Wax Golem 5th 2500 Wood Golem 5th 4000 The tin golem is what you want, a golem with an int of 6, special ability of +6 to two crafts and the ability to speak and wield weapons. The Familiar Forging has construct familiars as low as level three available. You need Dragon magazine 327, pages 72-73, Frankenstein This article has golem augmentations Simply put any construct that has no intelligence score can be granted one, on creation, equal to the crafters caster level / 2 for +8,000gp to the cost to create (granting it also feats and skill points as usual) That was the most important bit of the thread over at: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943611
Cartigan 11-21-07, 09:19 AM	I'm interested too in this thread. I want to make an effigy, but want to know about intelligence to constructs. Bump! Effigies don't have intelligence.
Tedronai 11-22-07, 11:04 AM	I'll assume that 'Core Rules' does not include Dragon Magazine solutions, so... Theoretically, you'll need to be at least 6th level (or contrive a method of acquiring 2 feats at 5th) in order to have the necessary Craft Construct feat (which has a prerequisite feat itself requiring CL 5), though individual constructs may have varied caster level requirements.